Refill keys - illegal

ob · Post by ob » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:11 pm

Well that's according to the clacket lane refill key warning - they have a poster with a picture of a key with a big red cross through it, saying if you are caught using a key they'll call the old bill.

For interests sake they are illegal (apparently) under the fraud act of 2006.

No point in keying in there anyhow, I'll tell you now, cluedo will be either £30-40 light or £60-70. Cash attack same figures. Jailbirds £70ish. Reds miles off etc.etc. The exception to this is just after refill. The rest is toilet so I won't go through them. Typical services really.

aaamusements.co.uk · Post by **aaamusements.co.uk** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:27 pm

The jury is still out on the legality or otherwise of the key itself - there is definitely no offense in possessing one if, for instance, you have it for use with your own machine at home or you need to use one for work.

Whether using one in someone else's machine is fraud is debatable, although I too have read recently from a Police source that it is indeed illegal.

It would be interesting to know if anyone has been successfully prosecuted for "fraudulently" using a key?

bigv038 · Post by **bigv038** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:05 pm

Ebay banned the sale of them ages ago because 'although the key itself isn't illegal, they encourage illegal activity'.

Joke if you ask me!

Whats the worst the police can do if you are caught anyway? It won't stop me using my key.

starleisure · Post by **starleisure** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:12 pm

ive also heard a few mumbles about these keys, the problem is the big companys seem to think that the key is only allowed in the gaming industry and that normal ppl cant have or use, by law just by owning a key does not mean you can be arrested but i think if you were caulght using the key in a machine you do not own then thats were i think you could be getting in to a trouble zone as they can say you dont have any right to access there infomation and there for were trying to ( fraud ) them.

To the gent who goes to clacket lane to play the machines its really not worth it coz they lowered the % quite a bit and it is fully cctv and smart water coz they were having so many breakins, just sayin so you dont get caulght with your key mate, there very touchy up there atm

ob · Post by ob » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:34 pm

bigv038 wrote:Ebay banned the sale of them ages ago because 'although the key itself isn't illegal, they encourage illegal activity'.

Joke if you ask me!

Whats the worst the police can do if you are caught anyway? It won't stop me using my key.

They could arrest you for fraud which can lead to a maximum sentance of 10 years imprisonment, however after reviewing the fraud act 2006, I cannot see any section that you would be breaching by using a key:

The sections are—
(a) section 2 (fraud by false representation),
(b) section 3 (fraud by failing to disclose information), and
(c) section 4 (fraud by abuse of position).

However the gambling act 2005 (section 42) states:

3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1) cheating at gambling may, in particular, consist of actual or attempted deception or interference in connection with:

(a) the process by which gambling is conducted

So I suppose they could try and do you on that one, as the machine telling you how much is in the hopper isnt the normal process by which gambling is conducted...

Anyone got a law degree here lol?!?!

trayhop123 · Post by **trayhop123** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:25 pm

best direct your questions to martial on this topic when he gets online tonight, he has been up court on this charge of using a key, he can fill in the details but basically he had to get this chap called mark who runs his own fruit machine business in leicester (m.e electronics ) to write a statement to the court explaining that there was no financial gain to using the key, i think the charge was going equipped with intent to defraud, and through lack of evidence it got thrown out.

bigpokercouk · Post by **bigpokercouk** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:51 pm

Yes they are illegal but imagine the court case

Cross examining industry expert

So these keys are all the same?
You havnt changed them in over 15 years?
You are aware of people having them but make no effort to change them?
You dont change them because people cant use them to get any money out

CASE DISMISSED!!

mr lugsy · Post by **mr lugsy** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:57 pm

good point there.
you cant use the key to get money out (there are exceptions).
you only use the key to tell you how much is in the machine,and as a rough indicator as to whether you're wasting your money or not,so effectively it's like it's illegal to know whether the machine has paid or not,maybe you should just ask the barman to supply the information

any firm who is that worried about the availability of refill keys has the option of simply pulling a wire off inside the cabinet to remedy the problem and shouldn't cause unnecessary work for the police and cps...and legal aid.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:03 pm

Yes, you can't beat a helpful barman, went in for an austin and a barmy army earlier and was told not too play the BA because in his words ''its just been double potted'' keyed it 9 off and itwas of its tree, also had the austin repeat and gave him a little smerk on the way out, lying little chav :P

i blame extremes for bringing a lot of heat where keys are concerned, they were great though

blackmogu · Post by **blackmogu** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:20 pm

*sigh* there is nothing to worry about using a key. Just think about it for a second...

PMK · Post by **PMK** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:35 pm

Myself and the fresh one were in that very same service station on Friday ob, to be fair CA was ready and about 40 up and cluedo(chipped) was also ready, unfortunately the Jailbirds is completely f**ked and after several re-chases (none of which repeated) we gave up and licked our wounds. To say it was the worse Jailbirds I/we have ever played is some what of an under-statement!!!

ob · Post by ob » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:43 pm

PMK wrote:Myself and the fresh one were in that very same service station on Friday ob, to be fair CA was ready and about 40 up and cluedo(chipped) was also ready, unfortunately the Jailbirds is completely f**ked and after several re-chases (none of which repeated) we gave up and licked our wounds. To say it was the worse Jailbirds I/we have ever played is some what of an under-statement!!!

That jailbirds has always been fine for me tbh from stacking. Usual is £40-50 for £70/105. Surely you aint playing it when its not stacking. The cluedo I must have been to 100 times in the last 200 days, and its dead 90% of the time on average, cash attack not even worth thinking about its that done...

Infact (no lie!!!) I did the jailbirds late last week on the cluedo side gave £105 off the JPR, so no wonder u got done :P

jeffvickers · Post by **jeffvickers** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:00 am

I've been searched twice by the cops, on each occasion the police were searching for screwdrivers and believe it or not "Magnets", as the complainant usually tells the cops this is what I am using. If the heat is on, I attach my Lowe & Fletcher to my house or car keys. They don't bat an eyelid.

betchrider · Post by **betchrider** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:02 am

jeffvickers wrote:I've been searched twice by the cops, on each occasion the police were searching for screwdrivers and believe it or not "Magnets", as the complainant usually tells the cops this is what I am using. If the heat is on, I attach my Lowe & Fletcher to my house or car keys. They don't bat an eyelid.

Best way

Mattb · Post by **Mattb** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:06 am

Yeah i've stopped there 3 times in the last few months and the jailbirds had been there on 2/3 goes. CA was also there once, but this was before all the hoo-hah on them.