i have a question that maybe one of u can help me out with?. I love playing texas holdem & i am only a novice. I would like to ask, is there an easy way of working out your hand odds & outs?. I've been on quite a few sites explaining odds but seems to complicated!. Surely there must be an easier way?. *chris*texas holdem
texas holdem
evening all! i have a question that maybe one of u can help me out with?. I love playing texas holdem & i am only a novice. I would like to ask, is there an easy way of working out your hand odds & outs?. I've been on quite a few sites explaining odds but seems to complicated!. Surely there must be an easier way?. *chris*
i have a question that maybe one of u can help me out with?. I love playing texas holdem & i am only a novice. I would like to ask, is there an easy way of working out your hand odds & outs?. I've been on quite a few sites explaining odds but seems to complicated!. Surely there must be an easier way?. *chris*You learn something new everyday!
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Cardinal Sin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4166
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
For my first foray into online poker, I found a chart on a website that showed each of the possible starting 2 hands in a chart / table, together with a score, showing the relative value of the hand, based on probability. For instance, 2-7 carried a score of 1, and AA the top of 15. I rarely lost when I first started playing.
Sadly, I've not been able to find this chart thing anywhere on the internet again. But it was certainly a big help to me.
Sadly, I've not been able to find this chart thing anywhere on the internet again. But it was certainly a big help to me.
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stuart4010
- Senior Member
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:48 pm
try http://www.wizardofodds.com, they've a stackload of odds etc on a number of games.
I'm fairly new to Fruit machines but in one day I've been able to give advice on things I do know quite a bit about. first banking (in misc manufacturers) now poker.
first count your LIVE outs. eg, if you have AK of spades and the flop is Queen Spades, 6 Spades 2 hearts. you have 9 spades to make your flush. If you know your opponent very well you may have been able to put him on a small range of hands preflop. say you raised with your AK asnd he just called. If he's a tight player he may have to have AQ or a middle pair to call you. he passes small pairs and bad aces to a raise and reraises big pairs and AK. after the flop you can say he has a middle pair he'll pass to a bet or AQ that he'll be happy with. you can now also beat him with a king (x3) but not an ace as he'll make two pair thats 12 clean outs. your chances of hitting a card any specific card is approx 2% and you have two shots at it so you will beat his AQ ABOUT half the time (12x2x2=48%)
counting LIVE outs is the key. if you're drawing to a straight but there's two to the flush on the board the cards that make your straight but also make your opponent a flush aren't outs.
once you have your outs times by two and then times by how many hards still to come.
Live outs X cards to come x 2
then you can work out your pot odds.
if I have two suited cards and there are two to the same suit on the board but I believe my opponent may have A,A I have 9 outs (discounting runner runner trips/two pair etc) thats 9x2x2=36% or roughly 2/1 so if my opponent bets the size of the pot or less I am getting correct odds to call.
eg pot is 1000 and he bets 1000. I now have to call 1000 to win 2000.
that's why you dont slow play Aces on danger flops if the A,A guy bets 500 into a 1000 pot I am playing correctly to call with my draw. if he bets 1500 into a 1000 pot I am playing incorrectly by drawing. ALWAYS make mugs pay to draw.
that's a big general and probably a bit confusing too but it's time to leave work and I rushed it a bit. If anything isn't clear or theres further questions, shoot away.
first count your LIVE outs. eg, if you have AK of spades and the flop is Queen Spades, 6 Spades 2 hearts. you have 9 spades to make your flush. If you know your opponent very well you may have been able to put him on a small range of hands preflop. say you raised with your AK asnd he just called. If he's a tight player he may have to have AQ or a middle pair to call you. he passes small pairs and bad aces to a raise and reraises big pairs and AK. after the flop you can say he has a middle pair he'll pass to a bet or AQ that he'll be happy with. you can now also beat him with a king (x3) but not an ace as he'll make two pair thats 12 clean outs. your chances of hitting a card any specific card is approx 2% and you have two shots at it so you will beat his AQ ABOUT half the time (12x2x2=48%)
counting LIVE outs is the key. if you're drawing to a straight but there's two to the flush on the board the cards that make your straight but also make your opponent a flush aren't outs.
once you have your outs times by two and then times by how many hards still to come.
Live outs X cards to come x 2
then you can work out your pot odds.
if I have two suited cards and there are two to the same suit on the board but I believe my opponent may have A,A I have 9 outs (discounting runner runner trips/two pair etc) thats 9x2x2=36% or roughly 2/1 so if my opponent bets the size of the pot or less I am getting correct odds to call.
eg pot is 1000 and he bets 1000. I now have to call 1000 to win 2000.
that's why you dont slow play Aces on danger flops if the A,A guy bets 500 into a 1000 pot I am playing correctly to call with my draw. if he bets 1500 into a 1000 pot I am playing incorrectly by drawing. ALWAYS make mugs pay to draw.
that's a big general and probably a bit confusing too but it's time to leave work and I rushed it a bit. If anything isn't clear or theres further questions, shoot away.
above link didnt work for me:
http://wizardofodds.com/holdem
try that
its got the chart mentioned earlier on, dont know if its the same mind.
http://wizardofodds.com/holdem
try that
its got the chart mentioned earlier on, dont know if its the same mind.ive been playing poker for about 10 years, and pretty much know my stuff. i usually play on will hill poker suite, but due tot he last week's play i will never be playing with them or anyone else online again. lost 6 out of 7 times with pocket aces pre flop allin. this is such an unreal statistic that im forced to beleive that there is more at work than simply a fair game. i know there is Switching Software for Prty Poker and a few thers and am starting to suspect the same for will hill. Aces will lose once in every 6 times all in preflop. but 6 out f 7 is so statistically unlikey that it doesnt make sense. not to mention the ridculous outdrawrs against me. dont mean to moan, but i know the odds like the back of my hand, and there is no way ill accpet this. its a ashame cos ive used the osftware for 5 years, and never had such a bead week. everyone has their run of bad luck but this was sickening.
max
max
sigh
seven isnt a sample
what have you done to piss william hill off that they'll pull the lose lever againsy you and not the other guy in the hand. or is it the other way round? have you just been unlucky and come up against players that have someone pulling the crack aces lever because it's fixed in their favopur and you just happen to be the unlucky victim.
have a word with yourself.
I played live poker 4 nights a week for 18 an month stretch and if you put the time in at the tables yu see everything. I once personally dealt a player pocket A,A three consecutive hands. she doubled up hand 1, picked up the blinds hand 2 and got knocked out of the tourney hand 3. I've seen JJ v QQ v KK v AA and the JJ win. I've seen a royal flush dealt out on the board. I had a run of five straight tournaments where I got KOed holding AA and when feeding the family is at stake those bad beats hurt pretty bad. you're experiencing VARIANCE and its hard to believe that someone who's been playing 10 years and knows what they're doing can't see this and puts it down to rigged software. Are you all in preflop with AA or are you continuing to play the hand on danger boards? three
on the flop and you holding A 
A 
, that sort of thing. are you raising too much or too little. do you alter how you play A,A depending on your position, your chip stack, the level of aggression of your table? in MTTs STTs and cash games? do you ever pass AA on the flop?
seven isnt a sample
what have you done to piss william hill off that they'll pull the lose lever againsy you and not the other guy in the hand. or is it the other way round? have you just been unlucky and come up against players that have someone pulling the crack aces lever because it's fixed in their favopur and you just happen to be the unlucky victim.
have a word with yourself.
I played live poker 4 nights a week for 18 an month stretch and if you put the time in at the tables yu see everything. I once personally dealt a player pocket A,A three consecutive hands. she doubled up hand 1, picked up the blinds hand 2 and got knocked out of the tourney hand 3. I've seen JJ v QQ v KK v AA and the JJ win. I've seen a royal flush dealt out on the board. I had a run of five straight tournaments where I got KOed holding AA and when feeding the family is at stake those bad beats hurt pretty bad. you're experiencing VARIANCE and its hard to believe that someone who's been playing 10 years and knows what they're doing can't see this and puts it down to rigged software. Are you all in preflop with AA or are you continuing to play the hand on danger boards? three
on the flop and you holding A A , that sort of thing. are you raising too much or too little. do you alter how you play A,A depending on your position, your chip stack, the level of aggression of your table? in MTTs STTs and cash games? do you ever pass AA on the flop?-
Cardinal Sin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4166
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
Agreed (Pokerpete).
So you've been playing with Bill Hill for 5 years, and this is the first time that this has happened (losing with AA 6 out of 7 times when you were all in).
Now excuse my schoolbody mathematics, but I understand the odds of losing pre-flop all in are approximately 40% (or you have a 60% chance of winning).
Therefore the chances of losing 2 in a row is 16%
3 in a row = 6.4%
4 in a row = 2.56%
5 in a row = approx 1%
6 in a row = approx 0.41%
(I've not included the one you did win in this calculation, mainly cos I can't remember how to do it. But needless to say, the odds of it would be higher than 0.41%).
I'll assume that you've played twice a week for the last 5 years. That means you've had 520 sessions at the poker. Therefore, statistically speaking, you would expect to lose with AA 6 times in a row 0.41% of the time.
Therefore, over the past 5 years, you should have lost like this 2.14 times. Given that this is presumably the first time it happened, AND that you actually won an AA hand, I would say that William Hill seems unfairly skewed in your favour.
So you've been playing with Bill Hill for 5 years, and this is the first time that this has happened (losing with AA 6 out of 7 times when you were all in).
Now excuse my schoolbody mathematics, but I understand the odds of losing pre-flop all in are approximately 40% (or you have a 60% chance of winning).
Therefore the chances of losing 2 in a row is 16%
3 in a row = 6.4%
4 in a row = 2.56%
5 in a row = approx 1%
6 in a row = approx 0.41%
(I've not included the one you did win in this calculation, mainly cos I can't remember how to do it. But needless to say, the odds of it would be higher than 0.41%).
I'll assume that you've played twice a week for the last 5 years. That means you've had 520 sessions at the poker. Therefore, statistically speaking, you would expect to lose with AA 6 times in a row 0.41% of the time.
Therefore, over the past 5 years, you should have lost like this 2.14 times. Given that this is presumably the first time it happened, AND that you actually won an AA hand, I would say that William Hill seems unfairly skewed in your favour.