Paragon £70s

[darren]

Cops n robbers is absolutely awful.

Having lost £340 the first time i played one and £200 tonight i think i will be steering clear. They are an absolute disgrace of a game, coming from someone who has hapilly lost 1200 in a rainbow riches but at least i felt i had a chance.

Any explanation dr paragon? 90% payout? that is pure bs and i bet i could prove it.

They played more fairly until the recentish upgrade that gives sheik yer snake a card gamble. I sugest you sort this out, before i buy one, make a tool for it and hand it out to crackheads for free.

Seriously, its an absolute joke.

[JG]

I'm a bit confused by this. Is this the 'Infiniti' you're talking about? Taller than a Paragon, 2*TFT screens? Or is this a new GWHL product?

I was aware that the £1 play options on the fruits were reduced from 90% to 74% over the course of a few revisions. Also Caeser's was made a little bit kinder from the first harsh program and then it was made ultra harsh on v2.9. I take it Cops has been butchered then as well.
You can't blame GWHL if that's the case, they're only following Barcrest with their appalling Triple 777 £70 games that claim 90% but feel like 70% at a pinch.

£1000 into Wild Clover for no jackpot or no wins for that matter?
£600 into Pots of Gold (£70) on 92% for three pots (silver, bronze, gold no rep) and a handful of reel wins.
£500 into Neptune's Treasure for first scatter feature for jackpot.
£300 into Mummy Money for first jackpot

Just a few reports I've heard from reliable MSN contacts and number two was myself.

As for GWHL well the Infiniti left my last location probably for a certain reason, but £1 play was at 86% and there was a definite sour feel to a lot of the games. For example Jon Kulmar's poker on £1 play was nearly always £16+ for the £10 chip to show up. was it saving for the bigger chips? No £10 again and again.

In the current climate I'd suggest if it's not a quiz and it has a video screen - stay away!

[darren]

Yeah I was referring to the infiniti cab.

Just feels like such a harsh game although it states 90% payout and £200 in for game over on £2.40 is no fun at all, even deals wouldnt do this.

Ahh well, lesson learnt

[Dr Paragon]

Dr. Paragon is intrigued as to how you could have lost so much in Cops & Robbers. Firstly, he would like to know if you were collecting anything? Or were you forcing it for the Mega Streak via three red keys?

If you were collecting wins and using the gamble, then it is possible that you managed to lose £200. As the gamble is 100% random, and true odds, then any money you take in to the gamble is removed from the money on the game - i.e, if you collect £10, and gamble and lose, the game still thinks you have collected £10. If you collect £10 and gamble to £70, it still only thinks you have collected £10.

So, if you keep doing this, and keep gambling for £70, but you don't make it to the jackpot, then you can lose that kind of money. Remember, the card gamble returns 100% over a very long period of time, but over a short to medium term, the percentage return to the player can be very large or very small.

All of the card gambles on the games are the same - they are true odds. The outcome of any of the gambles is completely removed from whether the game is feeling generous or harsh.

[gambogaz1]

So do you make this gamble distinction very clear on your units ??

Do you actively press collect and then get given the option of playing this independent card game ?? So that us the player fully understand that we've just collected £10 from the games % and then it's our choice to risk it on this random gamble game?

[Dr Paragon]

The card gamble is activated after the player has pressed collect. On the "Vegas Slots" this gamble can be turned on, off, or only on after you have won £3 or more.

You do not have to gamble any of the money.

[PMK]

Is this a joke?

[Glendale]

If we struggle to understand it then what hope for average punter? Hope i get info on these games and smash them! You rob the punter more than the pro player does!

[Guest]

Surely thats of questionable legalitly under a cat C licence as you could be staking far in excess of the £1 maximum on a single game.

And also as mentioned does it state that the gamble is essentially a seperate game with 100% random odds rather than an extension of the compensated % game

[Glendale]

These companys know how to bend the rules my friend! No doubt the % odd are in small print, prob on the back of the machine! Instead of taking a player to the police station to empty pockets and explain maybe they could take one of these in and explain the money in the bottom of them!

[Dr Paragon]

Surely thats of questionable legalitly under a cat C licence as you could be staking far in excess of the £1 maximum on a single game.

And also as mentioned does it state that the gamble is essentially a seperate game with 100% random odds rather than an extension of the compensated % game

It is not a seperate game, as it is still within the same credit. The principle is exactly the same as the gamble on the Barcrest 777 games (B3, Cat C).
It is interesting that some of you comment that it is "bending the rules" or that it is "emptying their pockets". The gamble is just as likely to overpay as it is to underpay.

[Glendale]

If it "overpays" by £50 then how much will the next victim get fleeced for? Whats the most these can take for a jackpot from dead?

[harry2]

There is no concept of dead or buzzing, so jackpots could be thousands of spins apart. If you don't like the gameplay (and players can't possibly, as they are not in control) then people aren't going to play them.

[gambogaz1]

It is not a seperate game, as it is still within the same credit.

And in that single quote you have shown how bent the game is.

If it's still in the same credit and you lose you haven't taken £10 profit out of the % yet your original reply states exactly that.

I can't even be bothered to go into it further. If I wanted to gamble £10 randomly I'd go a casino and play Roulette.
If I play a machine and lose £50 I'd expect the % to be effected by it,

[Dr Paragon]

It is not a seperate game, as it is still within the same credit.

And in that single quote you have shown how bent the game is.

If it's still in the same credit and you lose you haven't taken £10 profit out of the % yet your original reply states exactly that.

I can't even be bothered to go into it further. If I wanted to gamble £10 randomly I'd go a casino and play Roulette.
If I play a machine and lose £50 I'd expect the % to be effected by it,

I think you misunderstand the principle... although forgive me if you don't.

If you gamble £10 on the true odds gamble, because the gamble is true odds, it pays at 100%. Therefore, the machine behaves as if you have collected £10 regardless of what you win or lose within the gamble. So, if you gamble £10 that you have won from a feature and lose it, the game will play as if you have physical put that £10 in to the bank, or collected the coins, or whatever.

The reverse is also true. If you gamble £10 up to £70, the game will STILL play as if you have only taken £10 out of it. It doesn't know about the extra you have won in the same way it doesn't know about the £10 you have lost.

Of course, Dr Paragon agrees that this gamble is not to everyone's tastes. In fact, there is a version of software which removes all the gambles from the games - this is selected by the operators of the machine. However, gambogaz1, the gamble is far from bent. A true odds gamble is the best gamble you can make, because it means there is no house edge. The machine neither makes nor loses money from the gamble. It may do in the short term, but in the long term the return from the gamble is 100%.

However, it does seem that the gamble is more widely accepted on random games than it is on fruit machines and compensated games.

Dr Paragon thanks you all for the honest and frank feedback, and it will be fed back to our AWP team.