old players

[cool]

was approached by a genial chap this evening who wanted to remain anonymous who came from north of the border. mentioned a guy called peter bossett and one whose nickname was 'the fox' both from Glasgow.Has anybody heard of them & were they any good? Asked him why he's not playing them anymore-said it was virtually impossible to break back into them now.Do you as I do believe it is harder to start from scratch now as oppose to the 80's early 90's and has anybody an example of somebody who was very good at machines had a break for a few years then spectacularly crashed and burned on attempting a re-entry into swp's?

[Layla68]

I had a break when I returned to the States in late '91.
It wasn't too hard to quickly work back up to good returns after I got back in mid 1993.

Then after an eleven (!) year break I was back in London for a short while in 2005. I had definitely lost my touch - too many changes - including me having a couple of kids, and other commitments. I just didn't have the luxury of time to apply myself like I did before. I suspect even if I did though I might "crash and burn" if I attempted a full return.
Honestly I think I'll stick to pub quizzes...

Still, I'm really interested in how the climate for Pro Quiz Machine players has essentially changed since 1994. In what ways is it more challenging now? Is there anything that's actually easier?


Melissa.

[foxy]

hmmm, intriguing post cool.
to my mind peter bissett(luther!) is a quiz machine legend and definitely one of the first people to inspire me. the other is one gordon tennent now living in scarborough who i can't help but think you MAY have been talking to although annonymity was never gordon's way.
it's a bit weird that the other guy is referred to as mr fox from glasgow cause you would imagine that is me but i've only ever used that name recently and only on here though the afore - mentioned gordon knows that.
anyway i'd appreciate any further info you have cool as gordon owes me money! and peter i haven't seen for a while and i'd still like that list of original millionaire answers that he claimed to have.

[cool]

no its not you as the guy he was talking about was called the fox a long time ago and it was a nickname he didnt appreciate.He also mentioned a guy who was a professional but swore to all & sundry that he just dabbled in swp's--people who say that get up my nose-- the period that he was talking about I guess was about 85-99 as he gave uo around the time millionaire arrived.Cant help you about the guy from Scarborough,if he owes you money perhaps his house is slipping into the sea with any luck

[Properpro]

Still, I'm really interested in how the climate for Pro Quiz Machine players has essentially changed since 1994. In what ways is it more challenging now? Is there anything that's actually easier?

To my mind the major change since the 'early days' is simply the size and depth of the banks. Application and sheer hard work goes a long way. Kennedy was still shot in Dallas, Henry VIII still had six wives, all the legitimate facts remain the same, it's the amount of crap that surrounds them that appears daunting.
Anybody willing to commit to the process of rote learning will still succeed.

Not on my list so I'll speak freely, but a current and major example is FFQ. This site has eulogised about Suri's standard, no problem there he is a talented and hard-working player, but he is by no means alone. I personally know of at least one other player who has learnt this bank from scratch. He is up to speed and making 'fortunes', it can be done!


Money still goes in .....

[cp999]

was approached by a genial chap this evening who wanted to remain anonymous who came from north of the border. mentioned a guy called peter bossett and one whose nickname was 'the fox' both from Glasgow.Has anybody heard of them & were they any good? Asked him why he's not playing them anymore-said it was virtually impossible to break back into them now.Do you as I do believe it is harder to start from scratch now as oppose to the 80's early 90's and has anybody an example of somebody who was very good at machines had a break for a few years then spectacularly crashed and burned on attempting a re-entry into swp's?

I'm pretty sure Peter Bissett was on University Challenge representing the OU about ten years ago. A friend of mine who used to play machines in Glasgow knew him by sight.

Whether or not it is harder to start from scratch probably depends on your expectations. Tbh I was close to being able to empty Adders and Ladders on general knowledge alone and after a few weeks' playing there was no doubt I could empty them. It's pretty easy to drift around and make pocket money these days without ever getting to the level that some people reached on old machines. I've had this conversation with a friend of mine who thinks things are better than they used to be, whereas I think they are not as good. His point is that whilst there are far fewer machines that can be totally brutalized, far less work is required to find machines.

Still, I'm really interested in how the climate for Pro Quiz Machine players has essentially changed since 1994. In what ways is it more challenging now? Is there anything that's actually easier?

To my mind the major change since the 'early days' is simply the size and depth of the banks. Application and sheer hard work goes a long way. Kennedy was still shot in Dallas, Henry VIII still had six wives, all the legitimate facts remain the same, it's the amount of crap that surrounds them that appears daunting.
Anybody willing to commit to the process of rote learning will still succeed.

True, up to a point.

I think there is another major issue; that games can be reprogrammed remotely. I can think of a couple of games which could be emptied which have been altered recently and are no longer practical for more than the "easy money".

[grecian]

I'm pretty sure Peter Bissett was on University Challenge representing the OU about ten years ago. A friend of mine who used to play machines in Glasgow knew him by sight.

Peter Bissett was on the Open team which set a couple of the high score records on UC, and were narrowly defeated in the final by Magdalen College, Oxford - see:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent. ... uni29.html

I've heard before that Colin Andress of the Magdalen team that went on to beat Open was also a pretty useful SWP player.

[Nil Satis]

[quote="cp999"]I think there is another major issue]

This for me would be the biggest change, namely that the information about which games are paying out is available much quicker to the machine companies and they are more able to act on that information by either changing a game to make it much harder or removing it altogether. The game changes are rarely about replacing the questions with a whole new set but instead concentrate on altering the way the game plays. It can be very dispiriting to put in the hours and days learning a certain game to a decent standard only to then see it disappear or be 'chipped' so as to no longer be worth playing.

As for other changes since the early days:

Pros

- more machines around

- more big chain pubs - it is much easier to visit say a Wetherspoon's on a regular basis and win money without being hassled or even barred, whereas in the more traditional smaller pubs you were more likely to be spotted and the chances of upsetting the landlord, bar staff or regulars (all of whom may have believed for different reasons that the money in the machine was 'theirs'!) was much higher

- more games to choose from

Cons

- a lot more poor games - there is a high proportion of games that come out that offer very little to serious players. Virtually every old game was programmed to pay out a JP or similar large prize when it had taken in a certain amount of cash but there are plenty of games out nowadays where that is simpler never going to happen. A key part of the skill therefore is learning to assess quickly what is worth playing and what isn't and being disciplined in choosing what to play

- punter money being diluted - because of the wide choice of games that are available the spare cash from punters can be spread out over many 'pots', and if that spare cash is going into rubbish like Spot the Difference or Skill Ball Bingo then it isn't going to be available for decent players to get at

[QuizMaster]

The networks have made the major difference to difficulty, namely that they can jump on programming flaws exceptionally quickly. Puzzler would have cost them thousands years ago but they were on it very quickly and it was fixed before any of us knew what it was.

The upside is the sheer number of games available however. Most of the stuff I play would have only got to about 200-300 locations nationally in the old days of machines. With multiple applications per terminal, I now have access to anywhere up to 20,000 locations. Even the original Millionaires only got to about 5000 pubs. I mean we all remember the glory days of Inquizitor, Turnover etc, but it wasn't as if we could go into any pub and play them. Which also means in current times, that my travelling expenses are a lot less. I was doing 50 miles between locations sometimes to play 1 game.

QM

[cp999]

I mean we all remember the glory days of Inquizitor, Turnover etc, but it wasn't as if we could go into any pub and play them.

Indeed. And as for some of the pubs you ended up in because they had "a good machine". Jeez.

I sometimes think that the early 90s/"glory days" are viewed through rose-tinted glasses. The first GamesNets were often seriously exploitable, to say nothing of the game/cashpoint which appeared on a sadly limited number of them. Hopper full to empty in, hmm 20 mins? (but only if you knew a little, very simple, trick).

[Nil Satis]

to say nothing of the game/cashpoint which appeared on a sadly limited number of them. Hopper full to empty in, hmm 20 mins? (but only if you knew a little, very simple, trick).

Assuming it is many years since this information would have been of any financial use, would you like to explain what you are talking about?

[grecian]

Yes, I can imagine in the old days where each game came in its own individual cabinet, that if a game was shipped with a flaw, withdrawing the game entirely (i.e. physically removing each cabinet and then having to rebrand the cabinet to hold a new game) would have been a very expensive task. Now - flick a switch at headquarters and the offending game can be withdrawn at 98% of locations immediately.

I've heard some very general details of the Puzzler flaw but is anyone prepared to give a more detailed account of it? How did it work? Is it related to the 18xx scores spotted on the unchipped version in London? Was it repeatable? How many people had cottoned on to it?

[QuizMaster]

It could be anything he's talking about to be honest, there have been quite a few in recent years on Gamesnet. My personal favourite was the Q/Hangman trick.

[grecian]

It could be anything he's talking about to be honest, there have been quite a few in recent years on Gamesnet. My personal favourite was the Q/Hangman trick.

You knew I would ask, but what is the Q / Hangman trick?

[wires74]