prizes less than the stake

[sausagefingaz]

I thought quiz machines were not supposed to be impossible to win on.

With flawless play this monopoly would only pay a 20p top prize resulting in a net loss, no matter what you did with it.

Pathetic.

[paragoon]

There was another game like that. Starting to wonder if this is the end of SWPs. Been avoiding this Monopoly after a couple of early plays on test machines I realised it wasn't worth the time and effort. No doubt in a couple of weeks I'll find out there was some kind of Ceaser's Palace-esque bug and I've missed out on another cash cow

[Istenem]

that seems to be a scandal. the monopoly franchise used to be at the cutting edge of SWP development and this latest product is also slick. but, having seen that picture, to claim that a prize can be 40% of your stake is insulting. (not that joe schmo will ever see such a dreadful prize round.)

[grecian]

Yes, this does seem to be a bit of a trend. I guess that, post-HMRC's changes, developers have had to introduce more devices to protect their games from highly skilled players, and variable prize structures are part of that. This is totally taking the biscuit though. The game itself has lovely production values and is good fun to play, so it's a real pity that that's all been spoilt by making it financially unworthwhile for almost any player apart from the total amateur.

Whilst I'm conscious that some of the very best players I know (significantly better than me) are still making fair amounts, for the first time in about five or six years I'm feeling genuinely downbeat about the situation at the moment. When I'm winning money it's mainly by playing games which everyone plays and eking out some £3/£4 wins on them - e.g. Deal or No Deal, Colour of Money, Pub Quiz. £10 up from an updated cabinet is about as good as it gets at the moment for me. The games which I have had particular expertise on in the past - particularly By Any Means and You Have Won £20 - have, for me, been rendered so tough that I now lose money on them, probably. (Match of the Day is still OK I guess.)

The 2010/11 question bank update on Paragons is something I'm still finding tough to get up to speed on - which means that whole question categories (e.g. Music, Sport) which I used to be very reliable on are now a struggle. Chuck in the fact that I've always found Football and Entertainment to be very difficult and that's a lot of reduced options. And I do find that in most locations I play in (generally very competitive ones), BAM and YHW20 tend to kick in the tough end of the database really very quickly. Outside the very top boys I'd be very surprised if anyone is consistently winning on either of these titles nowadays, and I'd be surprised if YHW20 pays out anything at all to top boys apart from the odd £1 on the bonus game.

There's one or two points of interest on the Opens but a lot of the games are very scrappy affairs, and again they are not afraid of reverting to very ungenerous prize structures - I had E4 Pub Quiz revert to £1JP on me the other day - I hadn't even won the JP the previous game! Very tight and I can't think this attracts punters at all. GamesNets have a reasonable selection at the moment although I think that some games which people elsewhere are doing well on have already been rendered very tough in Lndon by top boy activity. In enjoyment terms, though, I'd play a GamesNet at the moment.

I've always tried to combine accumulation of knowledge for SWP purposes with accumulating knowledge for the other quiz things I'm involved in, and have found in the past it was reasonably possible to do both - with a pretty good general knowledge combined with remembering interesting-but-difficult SWP questions that one didn't already know, one could turn a respectable profit on SWPs (very respectable in some cases). Nowadays I'm beginning to wonder whether it is possible. The categories of question I mention above bear increasingly little correspondence with what I would describe as general knowledge on the subjects concerned, and I'm not sure I'm going to be willing to spend a lot of time and money learning my way into them for SWP purposes alone. No doubt I will stil play in the future, but probably rather less and probably on more of a gentlemanly, and less of a single-minded profit-hunting, basis. And of course I appreciate that these things do go in fits and bursts - and with further changes to the tax framework for games machines in prospect, it may be that developers can re-build some chance aspects into their games again, and slacken the brutal difficulty level rather.

I don’t envy professional players who've been Paragon bank specialists in the past four or five years, I must say. I imagine that they'll be taking quite a hit to their income until they're up to speed on the new questions - even the very best players. That said, I admire anyone who is still turning a good profit out there - good work.

[QuizMaster]

I think Mr. Monopoly is trying to say:

Keep your eye on the cards while I fix them.

What a sack of shit. Lily livered developers who are scared of good players. Long term road to ruin.

At least Paragon lets you win the dough then disables the game.

[Nil Satis]

True, but the Paragon 2011 question sets are a different step on the same road to ruin. Hard questions in themselves aren't a problem, as long as they appear at the appropriate time, but hard and extremely uninteresting questions that appear in the regions of a game where punters will regularly reach are a problem. As grecian implies, with the Paragon question updates you never find youself thinking "Ooh, I don't know the answer to that one but I might want to find out as it's an interesting question". Entertainment in particular is absolutely dreadful - God knows who was commissioned to write that set! - but others aren't much better. They are unplayable in the way that bad beer is undrinkable.

It's little wonder that, as the earlier thread mentions, postings on here are getting rarer - after all, we have self-selected as quiz machine enthusiasts by bothering to post on here at all. Most of us are better than the average player by some degree but all of us are here because we enjoy the games to a greater or lesser extent. When things are as dismal and grey as they are now, even our enthusiasm dissipates.

[harry2]

...........and the Top Boys pro machine with no buttons and no touch screen technology.

[harry2]

V1.1 with a lead shield. Tested in the Himalayas with the Zen Master himself who managed a 4p win before going into a terminal coma.

[grecian]

Loving your work, JG, as they say!

I take the point - the games companies aren't in this for the benefit of decent players - but even so, it's crap out there at the moment for all but the brilliant few.

[michaelmartin_526]

Long term road to ruin.

I think we past ruin a while back.

Wonder if the new regs will finish quiz machines off.

[kong]

Are the new regs why Deal or no Deal now gives a choice of 3 boxes when you finally make it to the end? Thought I was in for a shot at the original end game when it started asking for 29,000. Not some nonsense choice of 3 boxes (£3, £3.50 and £4).

Won't be bothering again.

[Istenem]

i don't want to sully a good thread with a feeble comment but, in the snakepigdog pubscape, the reality is that your SWP terminal wouldn't be there if it didn't make money for the publican.

and the distributor.

and the developer.

and the programmer.

and the taxman.

and the odd win for Joe Public.

if we are playing to 30%, your man in the pub is playing at ~zero.