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[Captain.Tattybojangles]

In this day & age where exams are near on impossible to fail & the students are givens top marks just for turning up, I suppose a crap response like that would indeed get you 6 A*s.

These sort of replies are ones I despise

[WaterGate]

Was that a delayed reaction?

[Dr Paragon]

Bullseye is not a GW game. It is a third party game, so we have no control over any changes made to the game other than whether we release the game or not. If the developer makes changes to the game that in his opinion are necessary for whatever reason, that is their call. The game will live or die by the performance of it in the wild.

[BigEd]

There is probably the worst game I have ever seen on a terminal - an odd one out game based on South Park.What sort of half wit would allow this rubbish on a terminal admittedly of low repute.......

As much as I hate to agree with cool, I stand firmly with him on this one. I also hate this game, as it is a total one trick pony. The gameplay is about as deep as puddle in a desert.

Even I have managed to win on this game with my first 50p, and it went in to a so obvious defensive mode that it might as well had said at the start, "give me 50p and don't bother trying'. What it will be like when the really fast hand boys rape it?

[steveseagull]

Quizmaster will be relieved Pub Quiz stays


Not at Greene King sites apparently . . . .

[Guest]

Bullseye is not a GW game. It is a third party game, so we have no control over any changes made to the game other than whether we release the game or not. If the developer makes changes to the game that in his opinion are necessary for whatever reason, that is their call. The game will live or die by the performance of it in the wild.

You do have control over whether to put it on your cabinet. On the PLOD thread you say that a game which gives no chance of winning is illegal. Don't you test the games to see if they fit in with your own definition of what is legal?

There are 3 types of game in my view:

Games which are theoretically jackpottable every time:
e.g. Pub Quiz, Fantasy Football, Beat the Landlord

Games from which you can theoretically win a non-jackpot prize every time:
1 v 100, Deal or No Deal, Golden Balls

Games which can and will stop you winning any prize no matter how skilful you are:
Bullseye, Take it or Leave it, Caveman Capers, (I would include Match of the Day here - 5 'missed' penalties in a row just irritates, why not just give me the quid??), plenty of others which I am sure I'm not good enough to know about

The more games you include from further down that list, the harder it becomes to consider quiz machines legal.

[QuizMaster]

Bullseye is not a GW game. It is a third party game, so we have no control over any changes made to the game other than whether we release the game or not. If the developer makes changes to the game that in his opinion are necessary for whatever reason, that is their call. The game will live or die by the performance of it in the wild.

You do have control over whether to put it on your cabinet. On the PLOD thread you say that a game which gives no chance of winning is illegal. Don't you test the games to see if they fit in with your own definition of what is legal?

There are 3 types of game in my view:

Games which are theoretically jackpottable every time:
e.g. Pub Quiz, Fantasy Football, Beat the Landlord

Games from which you can theoretically win a non-jackpot prize every time:
1 v 100, Deal or No Deal, Golden Balls

Games which can and will stop you winning any prize no matter how skilful you are:
Bullseye, Take it or Leave it, Caveman Capers, (I would include Match of the Day here - 5 'missed' penalties in a row just irritates, why not just give me the quid??), plenty of others which I am sure I'm not good enough to know about

The more games you include from further down that list, the harder it becomes to consider quiz machines legal.

You're absolutely right. You're not good enough to know. If you were I think you'd find you'd got some of these games in the wrong categories

[Guest]

You're absolutely right. You're not good enough to know. If you were I think you'd find you'd got some of these games in the wrong categories

I was trying to preempt such comments but I'll bite. Which ones?

[Istenem]

wrong side of bed again QM?

i do wish you wouldn't alienate anyone who doesn't come up to your standard and/or plays games you don't much care for.

fair enough to be spiky when appropriate but snide little digs with no provocation are not becoming.

Pickles made a coherent, sensible post with good points that were well-made. a new member should be welcomed, whether he is an insider, a player, a novice or a publican.

[QuizMaster]

Sorry Pickles.

I have no problems with new members making their points, I just thought his post was a bit over the top about the legality of games. I think it's fair to say that most of us on here are well aware of the earning potential of some of the games that Pickles believes will stop you no matter what.

I tossed 5 heads in a row once. Doesn't mean I've got a double headed coin.

[Nil Satis]

Games which can and will stop you winning any prize no matter how skilful you are:
Bullseye, Take it or Leave it, Caveman Capers, (I would include Match of the Day here - 5 'missed' penalties in a row just irritates, why not just give me the quid??), plenty of others which I am sure I'm not good enough to know about.

My two penn'orth

Bullseye - Assuming you mean the various Questions + Darts games, I'd say that one is in Category 2, i.e that it is theoretically possible to win a non-JP every time. If you answer enough questions you will always qualify for the end game. At that point my best guess would be that one of the prizes will always be attainable but that the skill mechanism retains the ability to, shall we say, make other prizes significantly harder.

Take It Or Leave It - this is a real mixed bag. It was Category 2 in the original old mode, in that a decent prize was always available (if by no means easy). It was then recognisably tweaked to be able to prevent you winning by always removing the bonus life and making the dual Booby Prize selection a ridiculously familiar sight - Category 3. In the current Multi-Prize version, I suspect it's reverted to Category 2 - a prize is always theoretically available but as the said prize will always be shite no one bothers playing the game any more.

Caveman Capers - in its '£1 JP' mode it is on the very borderline of Category 3. If (as another poster has noted) there is a further 'No JP at all' mode then clearly that is right in Category 3.

Match of the Day - Category 1. The JP is always theoretically there but it will obviously vary its difficulty level according to the old 'money in money out' rule. It is however more comparable to Category 3 on ItBoxes and Gamesnets - depending on the screen response and processing speed, some of the Challenge games can be impossible on those (e.g. a 'Keepy Uppy' ball that just drops straight to the ground without registering any screen response). You can usually avoid the Challenge games most of the time of course, but not if a Challenge is the final 'player' on one of the rounds, where you have no alternative option.

The latter comment applies also to By Any Means, where at a minimum the Train mini game has been impossible on every Gamesnet where I have seen it so far, although on this one of course you can always avoid taking any mini games.

However these two are different from Category 3 in that they are clearly not part of the game design but are instead issues to do with the usability of the hardware, comparable to say the Collect button being faulty on a fruit machine.

[Guest]

Sorry Pickles.

I have no problems with new members making their points, I just thought his post was a bit over the top about the legality of games. I think it's fair to say that most of us on here are well aware of the earning potential of some of the games that Pickles believes will stop you no matter what.

The fact is, I took shit loads out of Cavey - it was one of the very first games I could jackpot regularly. But I have seen the set up described by steve seagull; if this game wants to stops you winning it will do so in a very unfair way. I remember Take it or Leave It changing so that it would give you 2 boobys if it was in a bad mood i.e. why I included it in the 3rd category. I havent played later versions much but how can this be legal by Dr paragon's own definition (not that I ever remember seeing it on a Paragon)? If you get too close to the limit on Pints Make Prizes you will get 3 BONUSES. You have to pick one and you will get 3 GAME OVERs and a PASS. You will end up with GAME OVER 95%+ of the time (there is no skill in it). Again, I have taken a lot of money from both of these games over the years but this is the reality.

If a 9 dart finish from the computer player going first on PLOD would be illegal (as Dr Paragon suggests) how can any of the above not be?

This was my point and it was raised by Dr Paragon : the legality of individual games being programmed to be unwinnable not how profitable, or otherwise, the game may be to skilled players over a long period.

I think they are going to have to look at this because HMRC have specifically mentioned it and they're not messing about here.

/pickles again

[Matt Vinyl]

You will end up with GAME OVER 95%+

Pedantically, probably more like 75%...

I actually survived one of those setups yesterday, requiring one more pint and selected the pass.

[tonkarentino]

Games which can and will stop you winning any prize no matter how skilful you are:
Bullseye, Take it or Leave it, Caveman Capers, (I would include Match of the Day here - 5 'missed' penalties in a row just irritates, why not just give me the quid??), plenty of others which I am sure I'm not good enough to know about.

My two penn'orth

Bullseye - Assuming you mean the various Questions + Darts games, I'd say that one is in Category 2, i.e that it is theoretically possible to win a non-JP every time. If you answer enough questions you will always qualify for the end game. At that point my best guess would be that one of the prizes will always be attainable but that the skill mechanism retains the ability to, shall we say, make other prizes significantly harder.

Take It Or Leave It - this is a real mixed bag. It was Category 2 in the original old mode, in that a decent prize was always available (if by no means easy). It was then recognisably tweaked to be able to prevent you winning by always removing the bonus life and making the dual Booby Prize selection a ridiculously familiar sight - Category 3. In the current Multi-Prize version, I suspect it's reverted to Category 2 - a prize is always theoretically available but as the said prize will always be shite no one bothers playing the game any more.

Caveman Capers - in its '£1 JP' mode it is on the very borderline of Category 3. If (as another poster has noted) there is a further 'No JP at all' mode then clearly that is right in Category 3.

Match of the Day - Category 1. The JP is always theoretically there but it will obviously vary its difficulty level according to the old 'money in money out' rule. It is however more comparable to Category 3 on ItBoxes and Gamesnets - depending on the screen response and processing speed, some of the Challenge games can be impossible on those (e.g. a 'Keepy Uppy' ball that just drops straight to the ground without registering any screen response). You can usually avoid the Challenge games most of the time of course, but not if a Challenge is the final 'player' on one of the rounds, where you have no alternative option.

The latter comment applies also to By Any Means, where at a minimum the Train mini game has been impossible on every Gamesnet where I have seen it so far, although on this one of course you can always avoid taking any mini games.

However these two are different from Category 3 in that they are clearly not part of the game design but are instead issues to do with the usability of the hardware, comparable to say the Collect button being faulty on a fruit machine.

Bullseye is a funny one because it will usually put up at least a £2.00 prize (if you are good enough to answer the questions.) However the last bit does require a lot of skill with the darts. No doubt the company would say that the required level of skill would be missing if you didn't get a prize. Personally I think it engineers misses by bouncing off the wire when it shouldn't...but then perhaps I just ain't good enough....

[Dr Paragon]

Take It or Leave It will not be found on a paragon...