Interesting theory, perhaps the dirty ones do notice it, and as such put huge weight against it, although the dirtiest of dirty ones, ie. london bridge station one, would still do it when picking, clearly indicating there is still some weight on it spinning to the nudges/upgrade you need.
Not too sure though, perhaps also the 70% dirty ones just have all the nice spin %ages turned down to make the gameplay poorer, and spin to ? more often, you certainly notice this on some train station/service ones, which always seem to play horribly.
In terms of a jp off nearest win killing the pick value I agree, all wins kill the pick value to some extent depending on their size.
Further to the board spins I would also like to mention as a final note, the bonus' it offers are ALSO random, but with weight to shit bonus' if it's dead, think about a picking one... it can still give added extra on the bottom bonus or selector on the top bonus even when its picking, it's just not very often, it's usually boost/stoppa.
In comparison think of one that is adding again, this will most often give trail shot/selector etc. but not always, you still get some boost/stoppa's. Further that that I'd say even the letemspins are random to some extent, in that it sends it more often when alive, but can still let em spin even £5 when they are picking - this all just points to it being random yet weighted...
As a side note, for those who are struggling with the theory, think now of space raiders which is NOT entirely random spins, look how often it will fill the cash to say £5 then proceed to only land on features till they are on the same level... Although I'd say there's some randomness in the boards on SR, it's DEFINATELY controlled to some extent.
Think again for example you had managed to achieve 12 nudges on a board on both machines, however at the time, both are dead, I'd say there's a sound chance of jp on a VIU there, but NO CHANCE of JP on space raiders... showing you randomness on the former, but controlled spins on the latter..
ALL FIRED UP
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Guest
On the topic of picking VIU's i have just found one today quite by accident, strange thing is it was boosting when i took money run hot to gamble for nearest win which was jackpot, for some reason it dropped to PAR which was £10 
.....But surely it cant be buzzing and dead lol.
Also to tell when the value is gone on these you go by the setup on feature entry right? If it takes more then about 4 nudges for red trail/bonus then time to walk? Im a bit inexperienced and usually dont come across these anywhere near as dead as it was when id finished with it, £85 for £20
and £36 off to start 
.....But surely it cant be buzzing and dead lol.Also to tell when the value is gone on these you go by the setup on feature entry right? If it takes more then about 4 nudges for red trail/bonus then time to walk? Im a bit inexperienced and usually dont come across these anywhere near as dead as it was when id finished with it, £85 for £20
and £36 off to start The machine shouldn't really PAR in the first place so that's why it lost down. The gamble between £10 and £25 is massive and Nearest Win is a legitimate way of getting JP whereas PAR isn't really. The most you can get from Money Run is £5 so it's also a £20 leap on that gamble. The machine would have to be really of it's nut to let you win upto Nearest. Sometimes when it's picking it will give you a Nearest Win JP on a plate, this is effectively a Pick in terms of value, so instead of having two picks you'll only have one now, but this was perhaps not the situation here.darren223 wrote:On the topic of picking VIU's i have just found one today quite by accident, strange thing is it was boosting when i took money run hot to gamble for nearest win which was jackpot, for some reason it dropped to PAR which was £10
If the reel numbers are 111, or worse i.e. there is no possible chance of getting red or to the bonus on 2/3 consecutive boards it's usually time to walk. They can do weird things like offer boost but then it'll put you somewhere useless so it doesn't matter if that's the case. You get a feel for it the more you play.Also to tell when the value is gone on these you go by the setup on feature entry right? If it takes more then about 4 nudges for red trail/bonus then time to walk? Im a bit inexperienced and usually dont come across these anywhere near as dead as it was when id finished with it, £85 for £20
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Guest
Re: afu
Right ive been for another session tonight on Vamp....
I now understand how it works in terms of picking etc etc....
Tonight i was playing 'my' machine and thought it would need a bit of killing. How wrong i was. The machine was BOOSTING on 3 consecutive boards who would'nt think the same, thought id force for a legitamate pot.
And then i keyed it.... 78 pounds off with no changer
Took a super streak which completely killed it. 2 PARS on consecutive due to this 'luck factor' (let em spins helped!) which i was well pleased with. Left it well over £100 off.
I agree with the weighted spins theory actually, there is certainly some randomness, a blind man could see that.
I now understand how it works in terms of picking etc etc....
Tonight i was playing 'my' machine and thought it would need a bit of killing. How wrong i was. The machine was BOOSTING on 3 consecutive boards who would'nt think the same, thought id force for a legitamate pot.
And then i keyed it.... 78 pounds off with no changer
Took a super streak which completely killed it. 2 PARS on consecutive due to this 'luck factor' (let em spins helped!) which i was well pleased with. Left it well over £100 off.I agree with the weighted spins theory actually, there is certainly some randomness, a blind man could see that.
some of the post on this thread are really fucked up
OB, err, you havent got a clue have you really>
for one, the PAR trick was built in around the %age payout routines so you should be able to get the par to work as and when it is available, force for it, let em spin for it, do whatever you wish
BUT
aside from the PAR, the machine follows a strict program that has NO random elements at all, the machine knows what it is going to do in the next "GAME" before the button is pressed,
by game i mean the initial spin resulting from using a single credit.
wether you get a hold, nudge, win, or a feature entry it knows exactly which symbol it is going to put in which position,
then, if you do get a board, the machine will take into coinsideration what will happen next, you get your first press, it knows where it is going to move you to, it has a capped amount that you can win at each and every point in the game, it will give you the nudges,cash,streaks,whatever, but you will never get anything it doesnt want you to have, there is NO truth/accuracy in your theory of randomness, it is just what you percieve from thousands of pounds of programming that is ment to seem random,
so joe bloggs sees random,you see pesudo randomness and believe its real, i (and anyone else with a brain) see a set sequence of events in a "domino" style cascade, the only thing that changes the next move is the one before it, when the machine gets the features or cash to the amount that it wants to payout it stops, and either gives you the option to collect, or kill off the board.
did you know that a machine that is going to give a jackpot and repeat a jackpot knows its going to repeat before you get on the board? and if it offers a skill repeat, it is just the machine giving you the impression that you did a good thing, whereas it is really just the programmers/manufacturers building in another chance for you to lose, it was predetermined, if you hit no, then the machine will take its programming from there and do something different to what it would have if it had paid the repeat,
there is no randomness in the machine at all, NONE of the number spins are random, i doubt there is a random number generating routine in the programming at all!
you are just drawn into the machine, just like its been designed to do.
thinking you understand it and have "one up" over it,
sorry mate, but the whole point you tried to make is bullshit.
the only think that any of the vamps etc do that is against the programming is give the PAR, ...BUT... it is actually in the program, the only thing is that there is no win value designated to the feature so it is unlocked at all times in play. all the other features can be controlled within the machines programming,
each board will have a set value of win available, each feature will have an assigned capped win value, you might win less, but you will never win more, so it can be controlled by the machine, (pick a reel excluded)
any arguments start a new thread
OB, err, you havent got a clue have you really>
for one, the PAR trick was built in around the %age payout routines so you should be able to get the par to work as and when it is available, force for it, let em spin for it, do whatever you wish
BUT
aside from the PAR, the machine follows a strict program that has NO random elements at all, the machine knows what it is going to do in the next "GAME" before the button is pressed,
by game i mean the initial spin resulting from using a single credit.
wether you get a hold, nudge, win, or a feature entry it knows exactly which symbol it is going to put in which position,
then, if you do get a board, the machine will take into coinsideration what will happen next, you get your first press, it knows where it is going to move you to, it has a capped amount that you can win at each and every point in the game, it will give you the nudges,cash,streaks,whatever, but you will never get anything it doesnt want you to have, there is NO truth/accuracy in your theory of randomness, it is just what you percieve from thousands of pounds of programming that is ment to seem random,
so joe bloggs sees random,you see pesudo randomness and believe its real, i (and anyone else with a brain) see a set sequence of events in a "domino" style cascade, the only thing that changes the next move is the one before it, when the machine gets the features or cash to the amount that it wants to payout it stops, and either gives you the option to collect, or kill off the board.
did you know that a machine that is going to give a jackpot and repeat a jackpot knows its going to repeat before you get on the board? and if it offers a skill repeat, it is just the machine giving you the impression that you did a good thing, whereas it is really just the programmers/manufacturers building in another chance for you to lose, it was predetermined, if you hit no, then the machine will take its programming from there and do something different to what it would have if it had paid the repeat,
there is no randomness in the machine at all, NONE of the number spins are random, i doubt there is a random number generating routine in the programming at all!
you are just drawn into the machine, just like its been designed to do.
thinking you understand it and have "one up" over it,
sorry mate, but the whole point you tried to make is bullshit.
the only think that any of the vamps etc do that is against the programming is give the PAR, ...BUT... it is actually in the program, the only thing is that there is no win value designated to the feature so it is unlocked at all times in play. all the other features can be controlled within the machines programming,
each board will have a set value of win available, each feature will have an assigned capped win value, you might win less, but you will never win more, so it can be controlled by the machine, (pick a reel excluded)
any arguments start a new thread
hmm, thought this one had gone to bed... perhaps your right, but it certainly feels random when your playing it, ie. when its adding again sometimes you still cant get top for a few boards, yet when its stone burnt you can get £25 on turbo cash/nearest win - my point is, in our terms we may aswell see it as random - you wouldnt be able to predict whether turbo cash will give £25 - and it doesnt matter whether the machine is happy (ie. boosting) or not as to whether you'll get the £25 of turbo cash - perhaps it has already decided to do £25 when you start the board from the turbo cash, but you dont know that do you... the chance it has decided that FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW can be viewed as random.
Think also about battleaxe and goldstrike, and perhaps ready to rock, all old barcrests you can empty, it's all the same sort of theory, maybe the board has decided to be reasonably happy ie. £3cap, but you can screw it into pot ( many ways ), from your point of view WHEN YOU START THE BOARD... YOU DONT KNOW WHAT SORT OF BOARD ITS GOING TO BE... so IN YOUR TERMS it's random whether its a kill 2nd hilo board ( ie. ready to rock ) or not... Crests have many ways to screw themselves into giving pots they're not ready for, and the chance it may screw itself is a "random" chance in your terms
Contrast this to pie factory if you will... you ALWAYS know what gambles the machine will win etc.etc. and you wont ever be able to blag it much past the board block... perhaps a £10 board can be screwed into £15 with no lose etc. but not far above a block...
So in terms of vamp it up, maybe the board has decided to give £25 even though the machine is burnt ( ie. £50+ off boosting ), it's unlikely, and FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW a random chance of it happening...
Think your confusing what I meant...
Think also about battleaxe and goldstrike, and perhaps ready to rock, all old barcrests you can empty, it's all the same sort of theory, maybe the board has decided to be reasonably happy ie. £3cap, but you can screw it into pot ( many ways ), from your point of view WHEN YOU START THE BOARD... YOU DONT KNOW WHAT SORT OF BOARD ITS GOING TO BE... so IN YOUR TERMS it's random whether its a kill 2nd hilo board ( ie. ready to rock ) or not... Crests have many ways to screw themselves into giving pots they're not ready for, and the chance it may screw itself is a "random" chance in your terms
Contrast this to pie factory if you will... you ALWAYS know what gambles the machine will win etc.etc. and you wont ever be able to blag it much past the board block... perhaps a £10 board can be screwed into £15 with no lose etc. but not far above a block...
So in terms of vamp it up, maybe the board has decided to give £25 even though the machine is burnt ( ie. £50+ off boosting ), it's unlikely, and FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW a random chance of it happening...
Think your confusing what I meant...
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king_conspiracy
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Jackpoteer
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Add again
Cant be arsed to read through the rest but does no one actualy realise what it means when a fired up starts u wiv an add again bonus....ever heard of machine being hi lowed? jackpot ...then plenty of after play...no one no the positions of FREE moves? AND ALL FIRED UP CAN REPEAT its just rare as rocking horse shit...you have to learn the reels for this machine.....If you need help pm me and ill explain exactly how to sort this machine
Re: Add again
all been discussed before mate, im sure everyone on here knows how to play these + clones.Jackpoteer wrote:Cant be arsed to read through the rest but does no one actualy realise what it means when a fired up starts u wiv an add again bonus....ever heard of machine being hi lowed? jackpot ...then plenty of after play...no one no the positions of FREE moves? AND ALL FIRED UP CAN REPEAT its just rare as rocking horse shit...you have to learn the reels for this machine.....If you need help pm me and ill explain exactly how to sort this machine
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Jackpoteer
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lol ok
ok mate fair does, just cudnt be arsed to read thru it all, n not every1 on here has a brain lol 
just reas some things people put!!
just reas some things people put!!I cant be arsed to read this topic but im SHOCKED that anyone would suggest the spins are 'random' on this machine; their only evidence being that the machine can pay a top streak when apparently 'not ready for it' Extremes drop in the cashpot streak 'randomly' when not ready for a force, but I dont think anyone would call the spins random! from Barcrests point of vieew its quite clever, most machines you see dead board killing on second spin and you walk, they program the machine to give a top 1 in a 1000 when dead so mr bloggs thinks "well I got a jp once when it was 'dead' so ill press on!" Never heard anything so stupid really, why WOULD they program each spin to be 'random' and based on a percentage?! surely this would be twice as hard than just sticking to the normal spin profiles...