dond mega deal

blackmogu · Post by **blackmogu** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:28 pm

keying an extreme would not lose the machine of any money in the long term. The money won was always percentage registered. It would only ensure that the other punters would not win their 'gamble' that didn't use a key.

The gamble being with fixed percentage machines, has someone won before you.

So if the extreme machine was reading it's profit meter fine, what exactly will you be charged with ?

I know these arguments are all academic until tested in court, but the fact that no-one has been successfully prosecuted for it (that I know of) I think that my arguments are quite strong. Logic usually triumphs in legal situations.

uber-pro · Post by **uber-pro** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:29 pm

Just to inflame things - I was charged with "opening a lockfast place" and "fraud" for doing a random spinner.

Opening a lockfast place doesn't have anything to do with physical opening either. It applies when something locked, with a controlled release can be forced to release by means oher than intended. It was likened to kicking a parking meter in a certain way so the coins spat out. No damage incurred, but good example of the crime of "opening a lockfast place".

Also getting a spin for 10p that should have cost £2 was likened to buying a lottery ticket, winning jackpot, and not having paid properly for it - it would not longer be yours and void.

The only defence was that just because the spin was cheeper, I had no more chance of winning that anyone else.

Either way - case passed prelim hearing, was gonna be heard, then got dropped on the day, after I bloody turned up tho.

blackmogu · Post by **blackmogu** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:31 pm

Spyder wrote:
Stevie S wrote:I mean if the fruit machine has a fault of any kind that causes it not to pay out, you will always be entitled to it back from behind the bar etc and the courts will back you on it if you take it that far.

not true.. disclaimed under "machine malfunction voids pays"

You are still entitled to be paid (especially with the gambling act change that came into force regarding gambling debts as enforceable). Just because someone writes a disclaimer, doesn't mean that it is enforceable.

Same reasoning behind shops that write all sorts of guff return policies to cofuse the consumer. But always remember, they do not affect your statutory rights

blackmogu · Post by **blackmogu** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:36 pm

uber-pro wrote:Just to inflame things - I was charged with "opening a lockfast place" and "fraud" for doing a random spinner.

Opening a lockfast place doesn't have anything to do with physical opening either. It applies when something locked, with a controlled release can be forced to release by means oher than intended. It was likened to kicking a parking meter in a certain way so the coins spat out. No damage incurred, but good example of the crime of "opening a lockfast place".

Also getting a spin for 10p that should have cost £2 was likened to buying a lottery ticket, winning jackpot, and not having paid properly for it - it would not longer be yours and void.

The only defence was that just because the spin was cheeper, I had no more chance of winning that anyone else.

Either way - case passed prelim hearing, was gonna be heard, then got dropped on the day, after I bloody turned up tho.

No doubt after the prosecution realised just how untenable their arguments were. If you were 'bang to rights' then the case would have gone ahead. It's also a common tactic to get as far along the court process as possible in the hope that a guilty plea is entered, thus not exposing the non-case.

Sadly, tactics like that are all too common in our legal system. (I've been to court numerous times for civil matters, and experienced such things).

Stevie S · Post by **Stevie S** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:45 pm

It's been nice to have a decent debate for once without someone being stupid

ps I phones and fat fingers are a bad mix

uber-pro · Post by **uber-pro** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:45 pm

*p.s before any smart arse wonders what I'm doing on here at this time - my wifes ill and needs company, and I've had enough for one day!

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:45 pm

statutory rights?

is there a section on playing a machine and it breaking while you are playing it?

ALL wins must be paid through the machine, no handpays that dont eject from the machines hoppers(or notes now). so if the machine short pays and resets or registered the pay without ejecting it you cant do anyhting about it?

if the machine malfunctions, it doesnt owe you money, as the instructions on how to play right next to the coinslot inform you of this risk? statutory rights wouldnt cover it would they?

surely if that part of the info is irrelevent then so is the rest.. so the part about giving a choice where you have no chance of success" is invalid and i should be demanding every gamble on a 1 or 12 should win.. so, jpm owe me a few £10ers/£15's when they used to kill on a 1 to 1 or 12 to 12 gamble

Stevie S · Post by **Stevie S** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:49 pm

That void payment thing is utter nonsense spyder. Most places pay up because they know this.

Stevie S · Post by **Stevie S** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:18 pm

uber-pro wrote:*p.s before any smart arse wonders what I'm doing on here at this time - my wifes ill and needs company, and I've had enough for one day!

Hope the wife gets better soon mate. For anyone wondering why I am on here at this time, it's because I am a sad fuck with nothing better to do!

Houston · Post by **Houston** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:10 pm

You can bet your bottom dollar that if you call the police when a landlord switched your machine off on you that they would always take his word as gospel and tell you to leave. I have two Wetherspoons in my City and one has become terrible for playing the machines in. The manager always calls the police when barring anyone for anything, then cites racism to them even if nothing of the sort has been said. Again the police take his side.

CraigDag · Post by **CraigDag** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:06 am

If you are bothered, you can ask the police to review cctv, I've had it done there and then putting the landlord in an awkward position when they called the police in the first place. I don't even entertain the thought that it would always work out like that but was a nice save at the time.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:56 am

you have no rights whatsoever to request their cctv footage and the police will only do that if there was a crime.

if they are pressing charges the pub will supply the footage, but as its them barring you, which they are entitled to do with no reason, there is no need for anyone to see the cctv.

Stevie S · Post by **Stevie S** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:23 am

Houston wrote:You can bet your bottom dollar that if you call the police when a landlord switched your machine off on you that they would always take his word as gospel and tell you to leave. I have two Wetherspoons in my City and one has become terrible for playing the machines in. The manager always calls the police when barring anyone for anything, then cites racism to them even if nothing of the sort has been said. Again the police take his side.

The old bill are shite mate and don't know their arseholes from their earholes.

blackmogu · Post by **blackmogu** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:43 am

Spyder wrote:you have no rights whatsoever to request their cctv footage and the police will only do that if there was a crime.

if they are pressing charges the pub will supply the footage, but as its them barring you, which they are entitled to do with no reason, there is no need for anyone to see the cctv.

Wrong Again.

"All live footage recorded by a CCTV camera is considered under the Data Protection Act as processing personal data and therefore Data Subjects have a right to request all footage and images where they are featured."

Stevie S · Post by **Stevie S** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:47 am

Yeah, you can request it under the freedom of information act 2000.