calling it a day , , , well sort of
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trayhop123
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4901
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:21 pm
- Location: leicester
Good point Oscar. If some one lacks slightly in one of the things needed they may be excessively good at some thing else. So it may balance out. If some one is shit at skills not that they are really neaded these days. They may have good work ethic so they are leaving skills but travelling further puttin more hours in to make same money or more as he would if he was doing skills.
It's also a Internet forum so you arnt going to get many honest replies if any.
I'm just the average. I make a few quid and I'm happy with what I make or I wouldn't get out of bed for it. I don't think iv worked out anything solid. Ill hold my hands up. So obviously there is people who is out there opposite to me that has been mentioned on this thead. Noel's beard and the dark horse. Gotta give respect were its due. Who doesn't wish of stumbling over a rip or empty so they don't have to do the norm and compete with others? Been some good posts on this thread.
It's also a Internet forum so you arnt going to get many honest replies if any.
I'm just the average. I make a few quid and I'm happy with what I make or I wouldn't get out of bed for it. I don't think iv worked out anything solid. Ill hold my hands up. So obviously there is people who is out there opposite to me that has been mentioned on this thead. Noel's beard and the dark horse. Gotta give respect were its due. Who doesn't wish of stumbling over a rip or empty so they don't have to do the norm and compete with others? Been some good posts on this thread.
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Ruler of The World
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2110
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:51 pm
I wasn't intentionally being condescending, I just felt the best way to make my point about each one you made was to do it in the manner I did. You know that I respect you and it is because of this respect that I wrote a long reply in this way - something I have never done before. All I can say is, I see your points but I don't agree, I feel in most of this reply you posted you're actually admitting to going a bit beyond what was actually said. I simply disagree, is that not allowed?The Dark Horse wrote:Sigh. Would it kill you to try to listen to someone instead of using your argumentative nature to try and ridicule what they say?
I'll address your points in the patronising manner you did:-
1: Personally I find the similarities obvious and the relevance is me showing that the only way to be on every new trick is to be getting spoon fed by industry leaks, other relevance is me trying to show that it's not just a super intelligent 1 in 50 players who work things out as trayhop thinks, clueys work stuff out all the time but just don't know how to use it, other relevance is me showing how the fruit hating/dependant/demanding/defeatist attitudes of many players will prevent them from working things out.
2,3&4: Redlinesman describes players who are on every trick early, concealing their identity as their secret knowledge is far beyond the worth of the common player. Those who claim to be in this fruit machine elite aren't claiming to be in control and you are exactly right they would see average players as pests. If there is an illuminati they also don't openly claim power over the masses and see the average man as a pest they would like to eradicate, hence plans of population reduction. The fruit machine elite aren't promoting their chain/system openly in the same way the illuminati wouldn't promote their banking system, it's in place already and the majority adhere to it already. Trayhop and others are claiming to be slaves to this system quite clearly. They assume they are only capable of ever being spoon fed information which comes from invisible "top boys" whose intelligence is far beyond that of their own. Someone like redlinesmans or wills posts only strengthen that belief and demoralises the average player making them feel low and in turn subservient to the belief they have to wait by their phone for new information to get to them. Also I'm very clearly not the only person who believes this "chain" of information exists, it's in no way part of my imagination as majority of players admit to being spoon fed their knowledge from it. All I'm trying to do is show that reliance on this "chain" is not necessarily needed as much as most players think.
5: I'm just comparing normal conspiracy theory with fruit machine conspiracy theory and highlighting the similarities, this doesn't mean I've gone off my head, the post was semi humorous, your lack of ability to see the similarities and hence the relevance appears to be down to your lack of conspiracy knowledge, I will repeat, read up so that you can be more understanding about a subject you attempt to address in such a condescending and all knowing fashion.
6: Again, yes there is a system or "chain" in place or at least most players believe there is which is damaging enough, a chain where the largest amount of players are at the bottom level of information and a few unseen elite are at the top with the highest level of information. This could be described as a pyramid hierarchical system don't you think? I'm in no way suggesting the system was contrived by redlinesman and co who sit there rubbing their hands, merely pointing out the similarities in form of the systems. The point of this chain, like every chain that exists, would be to keep players at a certain level, top at the top and bottom at the bottom, again I'm not saying it was consciously or purposefully designed, just that it mimics other chains and systems found in the world, perhaps this is coincidental like you say, who knows.
7: Ok, fair enough I must have lost the point that you were making whilst being engrossed in writing my drivel, please explain to me the relevance to this thread of your mention of that player.
8: I don't think I'm all that paranoid, I just look at everything with an open mind as all possibilities are potentially real. I never mentioned anything to do with devil worshipping or selling souls by the way and I don't necessarily believe a lot of the illuminati theories but I do recognise similar patterns, something being a player is all about, just pointing out these similarities I've noticed to the board.
Anyway I already have a tin foil hat which is deflecting all the gamma mind control rays sent to my brain from the alien overlords so a simple toaster will suffice for Christmas.
I mentioned the soul selling and devil worshiping because in the music industry this is apparently what goes on with artists who 'spread the message' of the illuminati... or so the conspiracy theory says.
The relevance of the mentioning of the now former player I wrote about was due to you writing about your 'creator' (I find it quite hard to believe someone like you claims to be a creation of anyone, surely he was your mentor?). I was simply making the point that there are aspects of my own ability I don't think are as good as in other peoples' cases - like my route making, I think can be rather poor and random - his wasn't. I AM working on this!
Apart from that, I don't see anything for you to be getting upset about here and I hope you can try to see it from my point of view as someone who isn't really into conspiracy theories and finds any form of organisation in the whole fruit machine players SPHERE - NOT PYRAMID - hard to fathom.
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Noels Beard
I find the whole idea of supergroups and illuminati just sums up the lazy attitude of most on here. The "well I'll just do my perfects and flickers until I get the next phone call attitude."
And yes it pisses me off. Because, you, are offering nothing. I have loads of mates, cousins, aunts, uncles. All of them could do with earning a few bob. So why do I not just train them up and send them to your areas? It's within my power. And it certainly has been for last decade or so. What is trayhop claiming to be good at? What are you all claiming to be good at? If its not working out how to play fruit machines? Even the thickest of my friends and relation can follow simple instructions. Foolishly, I've always had in mind the sort of respect for other players that I would hope they would return to me. This thread just shows how unwarranted it all is. The fact that many of the long-term posters are willing to admit to injecting nothing into the scene, despite maybe a 20 year life span, strikes me as equivalent to 20 years spent sponging off the dole. "I'm not prepared to put MY money on the line to work something out, but I'm happy to hear about what you worked out with your money."
Clearly this issue splits members if this forum straight down the middle. For those who are with me, I foresee a few more years. Albeit a few years hard graft. For those who are not: well in my opinion you should be the first to fall. That is my final position.
And yes it pisses me off. Because, you, are offering nothing. I have loads of mates, cousins, aunts, uncles. All of them could do with earning a few bob. So why do I not just train them up and send them to your areas? It's within my power. And it certainly has been for last decade or so. What is trayhop claiming to be good at? What are you all claiming to be good at? If its not working out how to play fruit machines? Even the thickest of my friends and relation can follow simple instructions. Foolishly, I've always had in mind the sort of respect for other players that I would hope they would return to me. This thread just shows how unwarranted it all is. The fact that many of the long-term posters are willing to admit to injecting nothing into the scene, despite maybe a 20 year life span, strikes me as equivalent to 20 years spent sponging off the dole. "I'm not prepared to put MY money on the line to work something out, but I'm happy to hear about what you worked out with your money."
Clearly this issue splits members if this forum straight down the middle. For those who are with me, I foresee a few more years. Albeit a few years hard graft. For those who are not: well in my opinion you should be the first to fall. That is my final position.
Fair post that nb. Tbh my main annoyance with you is the arrogant way you sometimes come across, ie. It seems like you are proposing you could just work something out at the drop of a hat! I'm definitely one for investigating new stuff and seeing if I can see anything but often it ends up in a lost cause. The stuff you do work out can turn very lucrative though so I can certainly see where you're coming from.
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The Dark Horse
- Senior Member
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 6:01 am
- Location: London
ROTW:- I'm not upset mate, I just CBA writing stupidly long replies, as I said a lot of my original post was meant to be a humorous analogy and tongue in cheek, although I know my sense of humour can be difficult for some people to appreciate I would have thought someone as intelligent as yourself would have realised it wasn't all meant to be taken literally word for word.
The funny thing is you are actually agreeing with what I'm saying, the whole scenario of illuminati style elite players is hard to fathom, yet most players wait by the phone for the next trick these invisible super intelligent players have worked out. Like I said in my OP, most players are simply living in a matrix of false beliefs and if they opened their eyes to the real world they would see there's no superplayers, just boasters, most clues come from normal players trying to graft a living like everyone else. Only difference being these people have the confidence in their own ability to risk a few quid playing new games and don't shy away in fear or believe every game is shit until they're told how to play it.
Although in theory I agree with most of the things NB said, most players seem to forget that trying to work things out costs money, I don't share his attitude, like everyone else ive had information shared with me and started off being spoon fed until i evolved into a better player through experience. NB instead of puttinh down the braindead masses wouldnt it be better to try and enlighten them? To teach them that working out a clue is not some supernatural feat performed by mystical invisible elites and show them that all most intelligent people need is to have more confidence in their own abilities and then perhaps one day the playing community can become a community of professionals as it should be instead of the army of robots around today.
The funny thing is you are actually agreeing with what I'm saying, the whole scenario of illuminati style elite players is hard to fathom, yet most players wait by the phone for the next trick these invisible super intelligent players have worked out. Like I said in my OP, most players are simply living in a matrix of false beliefs and if they opened their eyes to the real world they would see there's no superplayers, just boasters, most clues come from normal players trying to graft a living like everyone else. Only difference being these people have the confidence in their own ability to risk a few quid playing new games and don't shy away in fear or believe every game is shit until they're told how to play it.
Although in theory I agree with most of the things NB said, most players seem to forget that trying to work things out costs money, I don't share his attitude, like everyone else ive had information shared with me and started off being spoon fed until i evolved into a better player through experience. NB instead of puttinh down the braindead masses wouldnt it be better to try and enlighten them? To teach them that working out a clue is not some supernatural feat performed by mystical invisible elites and show them that all most intelligent people need is to have more confidence in their own abilities and then perhaps one day the playing community can become a community of professionals as it should be instead of the army of robots around today.
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Captain.Tattybojangles
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1159
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: Today, Hull. Tomorrow...Still Hull...
Bog all.trayhop123 wrote:so how does everyone rate themselvs out of 10 ? , , , taking into account all the required facets and skillsets required of a pro player
this should make for interesting reading
No discipline, play anything, quit now as it's become no fun. Might give myself 0.2 because I play fiver Extremes and unchipped cabins
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Ruler of The World
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2110
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:51 pm
I was just about to go to sleep! WHAT IS UP WITH YOU???????????????? TRAIN UP THE RATS is what you're saying now!!! Is this also 'tongue in cheek'???
I must be reading from a completely different page to you... I will list my priorities here and you can say what you wish when you've seen them. This is how I believe things should be in this 'game'....
1. A player is a player, whether he is not as good as another doesn't matter because if he is really good he will always make his money regardless of how many rats are around, even if he classifies as a rat himself. A top player will obviously have reasons to moan when these people are around in their less skilled way - there are things they do really badly like hot up pubs, spread information just because they feel it is of no value, without any consideration for the fact that the person who gave them this information gave it to them in confidence. They will spread what they see as useless information like wild fire, just to score a few bonus points with their peers. I have met plenty of people who do this and I know you know at least 2 who do - this is why those 2 are always worth listening to but never worth sharing with for that precise reason.
2. A top player should NEVER be training up a wannabe or a rat! When I say a 'rat' my definition is basically someone who is of the last-to-know-brigade, a person living off the leftovers in this game, who scours around like the vermin and then occupies things (areas) as if it is holy ground to them. In my opinion, if these players were so good, they would work things out themselves. I have worked things out, I always kept things to myself unless I was working them out with others collectively and the times I did this, it did pay off and stuff lasted ages because it really was a small group who knew - for a very long time. In some peoples' eyes I guess I would qualify or resemble a 'rat' although I see these rat people as ones who contribute nothing, just feed off what seems like useless, old info to some and use it for their own benefit - I definitely do contribute things and I'm sure if you asked me in-depth questions about any machine I am familiar with, you'd see that I have the answers.
3. This 'game' is not a game! Can you really not see that it is a case of 'the fewer, the better'? Seriously, if you are telling me you don't believe this 'business' is better the fewer players there are then you need a brain scan! Not only do you seem to be saying that its OK to have so many players, you now also want to train them to become elite ones???? You want a training scheme or something??? Again, I am not saying I am one of the elite nor that I can even come close to the knowledge some people have on these machines, I just really could never support us completely and utterly shooting ourselves in the feet and taking this step of 'training' the rats thoroughly! I am baffled by you saying this and hope you are joking!
4. NEVER create a player - there are too many as it is. I have never done this, I have never trained anyone up on any machine! I would love to hear any person in this game seriously accuse me of being a big mouth when it comes to info! I was once tarnished by spending a bit too much time with a couple of big mouths - this is why I distanced myself from them. I don't know about you, I'm guessing you don't have a mouth like a fountain of info but you're really freaking me out with some things you're saying here!
5. This 1 is very important to me and I think can be what makes a great professional if followed... Stay in the shadows! Don't announce what you worked out, just go about your daily work, there is no need for fame and glory in this - it is simply about making money. If you boast about being a hot shot to people, you're not doing yourself any favours - you're basically inviting people to look out for you, shark you and, before you know it, you ARE training people up without even knowing it! If you are a genius on the fruits, great - you don't need to publicise it! We don't get sponsorship deals for being skillful because we're not football players like Ronaldo and Messi! I never wanted to be known, it is unfortunate in my opinion that people know who I am on here, as I did not reveal this myself!
I must be reading from a completely different page to you... I will list my priorities here and you can say what you wish when you've seen them. This is how I believe things should be in this 'game'....
1. A player is a player, whether he is not as good as another doesn't matter because if he is really good he will always make his money regardless of how many rats are around, even if he classifies as a rat himself. A top player will obviously have reasons to moan when these people are around in their less skilled way - there are things they do really badly like hot up pubs, spread information just because they feel it is of no value, without any consideration for the fact that the person who gave them this information gave it to them in confidence. They will spread what they see as useless information like wild fire, just to score a few bonus points with their peers. I have met plenty of people who do this and I know you know at least 2 who do - this is why those 2 are always worth listening to but never worth sharing with for that precise reason.
2. A top player should NEVER be training up a wannabe or a rat! When I say a 'rat' my definition is basically someone who is of the last-to-know-brigade, a person living off the leftovers in this game, who scours around like the vermin and then occupies things (areas) as if it is holy ground to them. In my opinion, if these players were so good, they would work things out themselves. I have worked things out, I always kept things to myself unless I was working them out with others collectively and the times I did this, it did pay off and stuff lasted ages because it really was a small group who knew - for a very long time. In some peoples' eyes I guess I would qualify or resemble a 'rat' although I see these rat people as ones who contribute nothing, just feed off what seems like useless, old info to some and use it for their own benefit - I definitely do contribute things and I'm sure if you asked me in-depth questions about any machine I am familiar with, you'd see that I have the answers.
3. This 'game' is not a game! Can you really not see that it is a case of 'the fewer, the better'? Seriously, if you are telling me you don't believe this 'business' is better the fewer players there are then you need a brain scan! Not only do you seem to be saying that its OK to have so many players, you now also want to train them to become elite ones???? You want a training scheme or something??? Again, I am not saying I am one of the elite nor that I can even come close to the knowledge some people have on these machines, I just really could never support us completely and utterly shooting ourselves in the feet and taking this step of 'training' the rats thoroughly! I am baffled by you saying this and hope you are joking!
4. NEVER create a player - there are too many as it is. I have never done this, I have never trained anyone up on any machine! I would love to hear any person in this game seriously accuse me of being a big mouth when it comes to info! I was once tarnished by spending a bit too much time with a couple of big mouths - this is why I distanced myself from them. I don't know about you, I'm guessing you don't have a mouth like a fountain of info but you're really freaking me out with some things you're saying here!
5. This 1 is very important to me and I think can be what makes a great professional if followed... Stay in the shadows! Don't announce what you worked out, just go about your daily work, there is no need for fame and glory in this - it is simply about making money. If you boast about being a hot shot to people, you're not doing yourself any favours - you're basically inviting people to look out for you, shark you and, before you know it, you ARE training people up without even knowing it! If you are a genius on the fruits, great - you don't need to publicise it! We don't get sponsorship deals for being skillful because we're not football players like Ronaldo and Messi! I never wanted to be known, it is unfortunate in my opinion that people know who I am on here, as I did not reveal this myself!
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The Dark Horse
- Senior Member
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 6:01 am
- Location: London
Now I know you must be on a wind up, I don't know what you're reading but half your points don't even correlate to anything I've said.Ruler of The World wrote:I was just about to go to sleep! WHAT IS UP WITH YOU???????????????? TRAIN UP THE RATS is what you're saying now!!! Is this also 'tongue in cheek'???
I must be reading from a completely different page to you... I will list my priorities here and you can say what you wish when you've seen them. This is how I believe things should be in this 'game'....
1. A player is a player, whether he is not as good as another doesn't matter because if he is really good he will always make his money regardless of how many rats are around, even if he classifies as a rat himself. A top player will obviously have reasons to moan when these people are around in their less skilled way - there are things they do really badly like hot up pubs, spread information just because they feel it is of no value, without any consideration for the fact that the person who gave them this information gave it to them in confidence. They will spread what they see as useless information like wild fire, just to score a few bonus points with their peers. I have met plenty of people who do this and I know you know at least 2 who do - this is why those 2 are always worth listening to but never worth sharing with for that precise reason.
2. A top player should NEVER be training up a wannabe or a rat! When I say a 'rat' my definition is basically someone who is of the last-to-know-brigade, a person living off the leftovers in this game, who scours around like the vermin and then occupies things (areas) as if it is holy ground to them. In my opinion, if these players were so good, they would work things out themselves. I have worked things out, I always kept things to myself unless I was working them out with others collectively and the times I did this, it did pay off and stuff lasted ages because it really was a small group who knew - for a very long time. In some peoples' eyes I guess I would qualify or resemble a 'rat' although I see these rat people as ones who contribute nothing, just feed off what seems like useless, old info to some and use it for their own benefit - I definitely do contribute things and I'm sure if you asked me in-depth questions about any machine I am familiar with, you'd see that I have the answers.
3. This 'game' is not a game! Can you really not see that it is a case of 'the fewer, the better'? Seriously, if you are telling me you don't believe this 'business' is better the fewer players there are then you need a brain scan! Not only do you seem to be saying that its OK to have so many players, you now also want to train them to become elite ones???? You want a training scheme or something??? Again, I am not saying I am one of the elite nor that I can even come close to the knowledge some people have on these machines, I just really could never support us completely and utterly shooting ourselves in the feet and taking this step of 'training' the rats thoroughly! I am baffled by you saying this and hope you are joking!
4. NEVER create a player - there are too many as it is. I have never done this, I have never trained anyone up on any machine! I would love to hear any person in this game seriously accuse me of being a big mouth when it comes to info! I was once tarnished by spending a bit too much time with a couple of big mouths - this is why I distanced myself from them. I don't know about you, I'm guessing you don't have a mouth like a fountain of info but you're really freaking me out with some things you're saying here!
1&2:- So you don't think there's any benefit from encouraging these rats who contribute nothing to the game into becoming skilled players who do? You seem to be confusing giving a man a fish and giving a man a fishing rod.
3:- You can't change the amount of people in the game which will always generally be rising, you can however attempt to change the quality of the players in the scene to be more mutalually beneficial, waste of time that it may be.
4:- What are you on about? Didn't mention anything like that and I agree new players should never be created.
You are coming across as if you are desperately trying to find reasons to argue against my posts, I can't be bothered to keep writing posts to explain myself so I'll just accept that in future any points I make will be automatically disagreed upon.
