Bucks Bunny
I post all my losses on here. Obviously stuff like losing a tenner doesn't get a mention as it ain't worth it, and it happens to everyone (bar lukestar). I've put a fair few horror stories on here, and i'm thinking of maybe having a stickied horror stories thread in the general forum for people to express their disgust and get big losses off their chest!
"Sixty percent of the time, it works, every time!"
Thats fair enough then mate but theres quite a few that do this. I think theyre the ones with the gambling problem, boasting about wins but when in actual fact theyre well down. Thats why I never aim for JP everytime just for the satisfaction, I go for the small easy wins then do oneMattb wrote:I post all my losses on here. Obviously stuff like losing a tenner doesn't get a mention as it ain't worth it, and it happens to everyone (bar lukestar). I've put a fair few horror stories on here, and i'm thinking of maybe having a stickied horror stories thread in the general forum for people to express their disgust and get big losses off their chest!
Hehe .... I said it before and I'll say it again: I'm a fan of these (and some of the clones) as long as you stick to playing the ones you can realistically monitor]The thing is, and theres NO GETTING AROUND THIS, it's so UNPREDICTABLE how much the top will cost, from any state of the machines hapiness/fullness when you get on it. I really don't see there being a debate about this, everyone knows these are dodgy mate. The top likes £70/105 yes agreed...ob wrote:These are so dodgy it's unreal, you being a fan of the original JTRAR etc. series nixxy, I could have guessed you'd be a fan of these
The thing you have to think about is this... is the average cost to get the top, better than the average reward, I'd say personally, £90 would be an average cost for the top on these, and I might add at this point, this is ALL from happy + full/near full ones, and this is from MANY MANY occasions, and not just my own experience. The average amount you get from the top is about £80ish ( 20% £35 40% £70 40% £105 ), again this is from ALOT of experience with them.
Overall (imo obviously) then you have an expected profit of -£10 over the long run, hence under no circumstances are they worth playing out, just take the best offer on the 1st board and leave.[/quote]
Crucially, Ob, you use the phrase ".. this is ALL from happy + full/near full ones .." - what would it be offering for you describe one as happy, where does the happy/unhappy line get drawn?
If £90 has been your average outlay for a top, then you've either been extremely unlucky or you've got other players treading on your toes. In my own experience, I've had the top feature cost less than £50 on dozens of occasions, and equally I've been fooled and gotten stung a number of times too. Being wiped out by a refilled Warped last Bank Holiday Monday, as I mentioned last week, being a case in point. But as long as the wins far outweigh the stings, I shall keep playing them.
I agree with your percentages for the value of tops on these and clones; and it's probably the fact that flat £35 tops are in such a minority that keeps me interested. Maybe it's the rationale behind when you would choose to push these and when not to that we're applying differently. Believe it or not, I actually walk away from more Gold Rushes than I take on.
I think it's fascinating how when it comes to these Games Media machines, people either love 'em or hate 'em. There's not much middle ground. As ever though, a machine is only as good as your last experience on it - there're machines that everyone raves about which I simply avoid .. certainly keeps the debate healthy.
This machine may at times offer a choice where the player has every chance of bankruptcy
good post there nixxy here's my response (sorry for being lazy on the quote feature lol)....
"I'm a fan of these (and some of the clones) as long as you stick to playing the ones you can realistically monitor"
Reply: Is this realistic in any case? Do you go to a pub EVERY day and note how light the machine is etc./ask barmen etc.? No machine you can know detailed payouts over entire days, refills etc. hinder this yet further.
"Crucially, Ob, you use the phrase ".. this is ALL from happy + full/near full ones .." - what would it be offering for you describe one as happy, where does the happy/unhappy line get drawn?"
Reply: In most cases (unless I was completely pissed etc. lol) I would say that minimum happiness would be superstreak offering on first board or £10+ on cash value and within £15 off full - might I add that I find this is VERY RARE, usually these are stone 1st board, perhaps it might be a good idea to play 2 boards; not sure whether its worth the outlay though.
Might I also add that I have had £100+ costs on ones that have offered £15+ first board, this is not uncommon imo.
Overall I do really think you've had alot more than average luck on these, which of course is bound to happen to everyone on certain machines, given you play a wide range. This skew's your judgement favorably, and this judgement may not therefore be justified.
"I'm a fan of these (and some of the clones) as long as you stick to playing the ones you can realistically monitor"
Reply: Is this realistic in any case? Do you go to a pub EVERY day and note how light the machine is etc./ask barmen etc.? No machine you can know detailed payouts over entire days, refills etc. hinder this yet further.
"Crucially, Ob, you use the phrase ".. this is ALL from happy + full/near full ones .." - what would it be offering for you describe one as happy, where does the happy/unhappy line get drawn?"
Reply: In most cases (unless I was completely pissed etc. lol) I would say that minimum happiness would be superstreak offering on first board or £10+ on cash value and within £15 off full - might I add that I find this is VERY RARE, usually these are stone 1st board, perhaps it might be a good idea to play 2 boards; not sure whether its worth the outlay though.
Might I also add that I have had £100+ costs on ones that have offered £15+ first board, this is not uncommon imo.
Overall I do really think you've had alot more than average luck on these, which of course is bound to happen to everyone on certain machines, given you play a wide range. This skew's your judgement favorably, and this judgement may not therefore be justified.
Yeah I'm not saying I stand there keeping stats or anything, but I make sure I wander into these places every other day or so, and have the drink I was going to have anyway - purely so I can get a rough grasp of whether anything has been trashed since I last looked, and equally to check on how a machine is recovering since I last checked. Two of these pubs are directly opposite my office, which certainly helps. The other three are all on my route home.ob wrote: "I'm a fan of these (and some of the clones) as long as you stick to playing the ones you can realistically monitor"
Reply: Is this realistic in any case? Do you go to a pub EVERY day and note how light the machine is etc./ask barmen etc.? No machine you can know detailed payouts over entire days, refills etc. hinder this yet further.
I should just say that I would apply this sort of logic to any machine, not just one that I like and others don't. It's not rocket science - it's simply my way of minimising the risk!
Problem is, this is same for everybody. Whichever machine(s) you have a good run on, you're gonna talk more favourably about. This is the beauty of reading this forum every day - everyone posting 'I hate machine X' and 'Machine Y is easy money', it really makes you wonder why others love the games you hate! But the point you make is a fair one, as people should not read my ramblings and conclude that playing these machines is a regular profit, because it ain't.ob wrote:"Crucially, Ob, you use the phrase ".. this is ALL from happy + full/near full ones .." - what would it be offering for you describe one as happy, where does the happy/unhappy line get drawn?"
Reply: In most cases (unless I was completely pissed etc. lol) I would say that minimum happiness would be superstreak offering on first board or £10+ on cash value and within £15 off full - might I add that I find this is VERY RARE, usually these are stone 1st board, perhaps it might be a good idea to play 2 boards]
I always stick a pound in and key it after that. Assuming that the pound didn't get me on the board, I make my first stay/go decision on the hopper level. I normally walk if it's anything more than a tenner away.
If happy with that, and I've weighed up how I last left it/how many days ago that was/any other factors, I'd usually play for 2 or 3 boards. Now this is where I think the stay/go debate really starts: what sort of offerings constitute a happy machine? For me:
- Any appearance of Survive from the Mystery
- Hi/Lo Jackpot offered on the Mystery
- Stop Those Reels offered from the position 4 bonus, and red boxes/£5 or £10 win available
- Skill Continue offered on the Mystery
- Hi/Lo Continue offered while on a 1 or 12
- red £10+rpt/£15 shots offered
- red Rich Man's Reward/red Fistful of Nuggets/red Mining Mayhem offered
- Super Shots entering 2nd level and offering red 5 SuperStrikes and/or red Mega Streak
- Hi/Lo gamble on the bonus wins beyond Double Shots on 3s and 10s
- red boxes spinning straight in without the 3rd hold
- middle Cashpot reaching £22 or more
- landing on the £2.50, £3 or £5 squares on the inner ring at any time
- First spin on the board puts you on the Skill square
- Cash shots land on £3+rpt/£4/£4+rpt/£5/£5+rpt in sequence BEFORE offering £1/£2
- and of course, spinning a 2 or 11 first spin to a Mystery
Now if none of that lot made an appearance within £10 or so, I'd probably look at grabbing what I can and walking.
I would add that being offered anything on Level 1 of the Super Shots, as well as red Moonshine Madness from Level 2 and the red 4 strikes on Level 3 are no sort of sign of happiness - it'll roll these in anytime. Similarly, Mattb mentioned the Cashpot reaching £9 - that's no sign of happiness either if you ask me. I think Matt Vinyl's comment about being OK from the offering of red 5 supershots is sensible. But seeing anything from the above list would get me (cautiously) interested.
Luck does get hit by the law of averages, of course - and as I said before, I've taken some severe dents from this and clones when drunk/misjudging/stung by a refill etc. Please don't think I'm making hundreds of pounds playing these - I'm just doing better from these than anything else on my local streets.ob wrote:Overall I do really think you've had alot more than average luck on these, which of course is bound to happen to everyone on certain machines, given you play a wide range.
ob wrote:This skew's your judgement favorably, and this judgement may not therefore be justified.
This machine may at times offer a choice where the player has every chance of bankruptcy
Whoa Nixxy that as a hell of a long post, made for interesting reading though.
I have a question for you, I don't ask for info normally but I noticed you mention 'red Rich Man's Reward'. What feature is this as I have found out the hard way (like most of us) that most features on these m/c's are poor, I had £22.50 in the cashpot and as I am not a forcer I had to take the pot.
It was the 1st time I've been offered it and it'll probably be the last time I'm offered it therefore if you can put me out of ones misery I'd be grateful, cheers
I have a question for you, I don't ask for info normally but I noticed you mention 'red Rich Man's Reward'. What feature is this as I have found out the hard way (like most of us) that most features on these m/c's are poor, I had £22.50 in the cashpot and as I am not a forcer I had to take the pot.
It was the 1st time I've been offered it and it'll probably be the last time I'm offered it therefore if you can put me out of ones misery I'd be grateful, cheers
-
Matt Vinyl
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7198
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Lost in the outback, Bryan
Nixxy, that post is spot on, and I'd agree with every single one of your 'signposts' there.
A lot of people think that these machines are 'random' as to when they are 'due'. And, I'll admit, I was of that camp for quite a while. Recently, however, I am coming around to the fact that you can guauge where you 'are' in the cycle, by the points you mention. There are a lot of fake 'signs' that would (and have!) lead most players into thinking 'they're in'.
The key signs you mention are:
- £3 + £5 squares landed on in the inner board.
- Red MS being offered before moving you up to the top level.
I played a JPTRT the other day, and it's surprising how much easier it is to get the top on these older varieties.
A lot of people think that these machines are 'random' as to when they are 'due'. And, I'll admit, I was of that camp for quite a while. Recently, however, I am coming around to the fact that you can guauge where you 'are' in the cycle, by the points you mention. There are a lot of fake 'signs' that would (and have!) lead most players into thinking 'they're in'.
The key signs you mention are:
- £3 + £5 squares landed on in the inner board.
- Red MS being offered before moving you up to the top level.
I played a JPTRT the other day, and it's surprising how much easier it is to get the top on these older varieties.
"And do you ever contradict yourself, Minister?" "Well, yes and no..."
The only sign on these games media ones is being through the 2 strikes/moonshine madness block. If it offers 5 strikes/MS/any top level shot then its there if you ask me. That can offer £5rp, skill and other stuff and not be there. Once you get through said block, should be there.
"Sixty percent of the time, it works, every time!"
There aren't many 'definitive' signs, but these machines simply will not land on the £3 or £5 inner-level squares unless it's just about ready. Also, having red MS on level 2 is a good thing because an unready machine will simply skip straight past it into the top level, where it can offer a lesser prize (ie. 4 Strikes or a Big Money symbol) but have the effect of making you think 'ooh, look I'm on the top level, it must be ready to pay'. If you're wise to it you'll know where the real value is.Matt Vinyl wrote:The key signs you mention are:
- £3 + £5 squares landed on in the inner board.
- Red MS being offered before moving you up to the top level.
I haven't a clue as I've never taken it, but it only seems to be offered in red (along with red Fist Full of Nuggets) when very nearly there. It gets offered when not red much more often. If I find out, I'll let you know.Matt Vinyl wrote:I played a JPTRT the other day, and it's surprising how much easier it is to get the top on these older varieties. ]
I found a £35 Juggling Jackpots the other day - the pub in question was rough as anything and I didn't fancy having a snooker cue rammed through my stomach so I left well alone
ma71lda wrote:I have a question for you, I don't ask for info normally but I noticed you mention 'red Rich Man's Reward'. What feature is this as I have found out the hard way (like most of us) that most features on these m/c's are poor ..
And you're right, most of the features offered are a mere distraction. They mainly pay £1 - £4, even when red.
This machine may at times offer a choice where the player has every chance of bankruptcy
tbh these machines can still do you even from £15+ happy, landing on £3/5 square, offering red MS, all that jazz, had losses from all those situations...
although to be fair, I've had losses on reds that are red first board; but this I would say is less likely... probably about a 3% chance of losing on a "red" red, but I'd say 20% chance of losing (thats being genourous aswell) on a flying games media etc.
I've played these games media/globals to death, and imo they are pretty poor/unpredictable, but each to their own I suppose...
although to be fair, I've had losses on reds that are red first board; but this I would say is less likely... probably about a 3% chance of losing on a "red" red, but I'd say 20% chance of losing (thats being genourous aswell) on a flying games media etc.
I've played these games media/globals to death, and imo they are pretty poor/unpredictable, but each to their own I suppose...
-
Matt Vinyl
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7198
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Lost in the outback, Bryan
May have been mentioned elsewhere, but I saw one of these on £35 / 10p/20p/30p play?! I didn't think that combo was permitted? Didn't touch it as the 30p didn't even offer 'numbers in view' and I know how even the 50p ones can take a good £7+ for a board...
"And do you ever contradict yourself, Minister?" "Well, yes and no..."
-
Matt Vinyl
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7198
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Lost in the outback, Bryan
I think I'll permanently give that one a miss...
Did find a Happy Campers though (never played one before) that I nipped for a quick tenner off of reel blasts (arranged the reels so as that was the lowest I could end up with). Loved the feature music, it's a copy of the tune from Carry On Camping (the film) lol...
Did find a Happy Campers though (never played one before) that I nipped for a quick tenner off of reel blasts (arranged the reels so as that was the lowest I could end up with). Loved the feature music, it's a copy of the tune from Carry On Camping (the film) lol...
"And do you ever contradict yourself, Minister?" "Well, yes and no..."