really wanna get into another debate about these horrendous machines being rigged or not but draw your own concluions from this..
you have a bankroll of £3000 you start betting on these machines at £5 on each of these numbers that just over 6/1 chance of a win..alls going well your up ...now look at this you decide to play only your profit on number1-6...13-20 and 31-36 so your now covering 18 numbers playing £30 a spin...this is the actual numbers in the exact order they come out..
0 0 0 14 24 28 21 28 0 29 27 24 0 7 10 12 23 23 29 8 9 12 7 21 25 22 <1> 24 25 27 27 30 <5> 14 14 ....
time o give up the odds on such an event occuring are astronimically high infact bordering on ridiculous..so your now well down and decide like a true idiot to up the stakes covering 25 numbers some with £10 singles bets some with £2 upto a maximum of £100 total bets....biggest win £144 with £4 on a number total loss £3000 in 35 minutes ..now during this period reds came up 19 times in succession black came up 12x in succession the same number 0 came up 5 timesin 12 spins with £0 covered on it...this is a true gameplay from myself an total idiot after losing a cpl £1k a cpl weeks ago decided to ty get it back what a complete moron but this time i decided to take a note of what was going on and as you can see the results are just breathtaking..RANDOM just does not exist and here is my theory..
Each and every spin is calculated win/loss ratio based on the % the machine needs..had it been paying chances are i would have won a few £ but being a monday it was start of the week it needs to pay for itself so starts taking in its required amount...theres never in one billion years this is a fair game and my best bet is to steer clear of machones that can destroy you..ive self excluded from every betting shop in my area so this will never happen again .Now just to finish spoke to a guy ive known for a while and he lost a fortune on these machiines in a short space of time ..betting all but 5 numbers one of the reamining 5 came in 3x in 4 spins to finish him off....
RANDOM??? draw youe own conclusions..
A system for roulette machines that DOES work
id just
id love to see the reply to this...went nto a betting shop this morning put a few lines on a guy was playing these FOBT ..im one to talk but he was playing £89 a spin covering ALL but 2 numbers nos 0 and 22....i swear on my parents lives number 22 came up 6 times in 9 spins ..if ever there was doubt im sorry but that just shows how RIGGED these machines are....
honestly
Do you seriously believe that these machines are random? ive seen the multiple reds in a row <always when your covering black>ive seen the 20 high numbers in a row<when your covering low>ive seen the same numbers repeat several times <when theyre one of the few you havent got> and u still take this electronic machine to be random?? the poor guy above covered all but one number it came out 6 times in 9 spins and you firmly believe thats a fair game?? i challenge you to go to any casino in the world and wait there to see howlong you have to wait till you see any of the above ...youll be there for a long long time...but alas on a machine youll wait minutes ...im 40 yrs old have went to casinos since i was 22 albeit not regularly but enough to know what im talking about...if you sat a casino had bet all bar one number and it came out 6 times in 9 spins youd trash the place cops everyone would know it was rigged..but yet people defend these machines why???pat624 wrote:shit happens sometimes eh!
I play these more than most and see the odd thing that raises an eyebrow, indeed today I had 14 reds in a row, but I do genuinely beleive these are not rigged
Harry made a sensible reply to my post above it was deleted why???
Amanager im friendly with told me not to play a machine oneday as he said it wasnt paying why????
they advertise % payouts on these machines how can random machines advertise a exact payout ????
online poker is "meant" to be random anyone who plays the game live knows its not and its proven not to be so why should we believe hills,corals laddies???
who checks these machines to see if they are fair????
Ok your answer might be why would copmpanies risk losing these machines if found out?? heres my answer in advance...hills.corals and co have to pay a tax £1450 perWEEK to have each and everyone of these machines in there shops thats FACT..now if they were truly random and paid to the 2.7% house edge that roulette for example offers them there is absolutely NO WAY on earth they would keep them there it weould be the biggest money loss ever...thats FACT..even ay double that % theyd be struggling in some shops to cover costs...so bearing that in mind im sure you know now why they would need to use some manipulation to cover costs then make there £8m per week prfits..that WOULD NEVER hapen off a 2.7% house win rate.
Next we will hear but the government oversees these random number generators??? thats the biggest laugh of all we have in mine and millions of others the most corrupt well sorry the 2nd most after the US governemt in the world so that puts that theory to rest...if they can give honours for ££ then im sure they can easily take huge payments for this..and probably do...so then you see its all plain sailing for bookies..after all for years they fixed horse racing prices so even when you got a winner it was substantially a lower price than what you expected it still happens today..you will see betting on races provding bookies with upto 137% market...so they collect 37% no matter what the result of the race is..that sound familiar???
less and less people are betting on racing these days with the younger generation coming through the way ahead is FOBT yet you tell me theyre gonna conitinue to make all this on a 2.7% house edge ?????
be interesting to hear a sensible reply to this cos to be honest i feel what ive written is a view expressed by many people except those"people" who no matter what defend these machines to the hilt but then again maybe there "livelihood" depends on it
whats that
whats that meant to mean???mjd wrote:I agree 100%
Casino Roulette - Focused on making money from people
Global Draw Roulette - Focused on making money FROM YOU ONLY
Ok I know you disagree with my posts about these machines, but I do understand what you are saying about your distrust of these things, I dont slag these machines off cos I do quite well out of them.
Firstly with the 14 reds in succession, I was actually betting red for these spins, and won every spin.
It is hard to compare casino roulette with these machines as the machine plays a game in 30 secs, casino roulette takes considerably longer. As you see many more spins on the FOBTS you are by definition bound to see more unusual events.
I will however provide some fuel for your argument with an event that I witnessed recently that I cannot explain or justify.
A guy I saw was having £10 a spin on number 14, it was one of the cold balls displayed on the machines stats, meaning it is a ball that hasnt come up for a long time,anyway he presses the button, the machine has a long pause, about 5 secs and then spins in number 23. The guy looks up at the list of "cold balls" and number 14 was suddenly no longer listed. He was raging about it and I seen it with my own eyes.
That incident did make me think that maybe sometimes if the machine is losing then maybe it changes the number.
Now that is the best evidence yet I have seen to justify your arguement.
Pat
Firstly with the 14 reds in succession, I was actually betting red for these spins, and won every spin.
It is hard to compare casino roulette with these machines as the machine plays a game in 30 secs, casino roulette takes considerably longer. As you see many more spins on the FOBTS you are by definition bound to see more unusual events.
I will however provide some fuel for your argument with an event that I witnessed recently that I cannot explain or justify.
A guy I saw was having £10 a spin on number 14, it was one of the cold balls displayed on the machines stats, meaning it is a ball that hasnt come up for a long time,anyway he presses the button, the machine has a long pause, about 5 secs and then spins in number 23. The guy looks up at the list of "cold balls" and number 14 was suddenly no longer listed. He was raging about it and I seen it with my own eyes.
That incident did make me think that maybe sometimes if the machine is losing then maybe it changes the number.
Now that is the best evidence yet I have seen to justify your arguement.
Pat
The dilemma for most fruit machine players is that when they play roulette the principle that "it must pay out soon" which relates to fruit machines which pay out in cyclical regularity does not apply. If you force a red or bell fruit, for instance, it will eventually give a jackpot. With roulette, due to their supposed randomness, each spin is an individual event. I speak through my pocket here, but am convinced that roulette is not as straight as it should be, especially in the IT box versions found in Billy Mountain shops and the Coral Global Draws. The problem is that when you are behind you up the stake and chase your losses which, when the machine is on suck mode can wipe out even the biggest bankrolls. I watched someone bet £100 on the centre section last week and he had sixteeen straight losses . Skint. The governments crusade to ease gamling laws is morally wrong. FOBT's belong in the casino or should have a smaller limit, say £10 a spin maximum stake and £100 maximum payout. LBO's are only open late for people to play these things. As another "old skool" player I remember when bookies would open from 10.30-4.30 in the winter. No-one I know wants to bet on Australian trotting racing at 8.30 in the morning,South African dustbowl races, endless cartoons or Mickey Mouse US racing in the evening.
Come on you Royals
Pat dont for one second think i have a agenda against these machnes what i am trying to prove is that they ARE NOT and NVER will b random...the maths speak for themselves ..£1450+VAT every week for EVERY machine based on a 2.7% house average it would be impossible to make mass fortunes like bookies are doing with this % absolutely impossible...i believe wholehartedly that they are set to payout a % if they didnt let people win noone would play them but the figures speak for themselves....and i agree that th machines can be seen to ct strangely like the ball suddenly stops quickly or it jumps when it dosent normally...its so obvious its not truly random...pat624 wrote:Ok I know you disagree with my posts about these machines, but I do understand what you are saying about your distrust of these things, I dont slag these machines off cos I do quite well out of them.
Firstly with the 14 reds in succession, I was actually betting red for these spins, and won every spin.
It is hard to compare casino roulette with these machines as the machine plays a game in 30 secs, casino roulette takes considerably longer. As you see many more spins on the FOBTS you are by definition bound to see more unusual events.
I will however provide some fuel for your argument with an event that I witnessed recently that I cannot explain or justify.
A guy I saw was having £10 a spin on number 14, it was one of the cold balls displayed on the machines stats, meaning it is a ball that hasnt come up for a long time,anyway he presses the button, the machine has a long pause, about 5 secs and then spins in number 23. The guy looks up at the list of "cold balls" and number 14 was suddenly no longer listed. He was raging about it and I seen it with my own eyes.
That incident did make me think that maybe sometimes if the machine is losing then maybe it changes the number.
Now that is the best evidence yet I have seen to justify your arguement.
Pat
Where do you get the figure of £1450 per machine per week from, this was certainly not the case when I was running FOBTS, we paid tax on Gross profits and rental of around £100 per month for the machine, now things may have changed as I left the industry some years ago. At the time my FOBTS were each turning over about £10K a day,and the figures in the long term did show a win of around 3%, admitedly that was a good shop in a well off area with lots of roulette addicts.
Pat
Pat
totally agree
Harry i totally agree the best ive seen yet is they even have poker where you can bet on cards now...i actually watched a draw yesterday which was farcical..one of the hands was AA and flop comes A K 8 AA was a 1/33 fav turn comes 5 AAA is now a 1/20 fav only other hand that could win was a original 6 9 offsuit and needed a 7 and was after the flop a 33/1 shot and need i say more...lol..These machines will destroy horse racing,greyhounds in years to come because the oyuner generation have litle interest in these sports now that the bookies is centred around FIXED odds beting terminals and as you rightly say mickey mouse racing..the worst surely is the australian trotting ...i wish the bookies was back to being what it should be a place where guys can go place a few bets...harry2 wrote:The dilemma for most fruit machine players is that when they play roulette the principle that "it must pay out soon" which relates to fruit machines which pay out in cyclical regularity does not apply. If you force a red or bell fruit, for instance, it will eventually give a jackpot. With roulette, due to their supposed randomness, each spin is an individual event. I speak through my pocket here, but am convinced that roulette is not as straight as it should be, especially in the IT box versions found in Billy Mountain shops and the Coral Global Draws. The problem is that when you are behind you up the stake and chase your losses which, when the machine is on suck mode can wipe out even the biggest bankrolls. I watched someone bet £100 on the centre section last week and he had sixteeen straight losses . Skint. The governments crusade to ease gamling laws is morally wrong. FOBT's belong in the casino or should have a smaller limit, say £10 a spin maximum stake and £100 maximum payout. LBO's are only open late for people to play these things. As another "old skool" player I remember when bookies would open from 10.30-4.30 in the winter. No-one I know wants to bet on Australian trotting racing at 8.30 in the morning,South African dustbowl races, endless cartoons or Mickey Mouse US racing in the evening.
-
Guest
Have
Totally agree ..global draw a company with no morals whatsoever just hounds being fed by the betting shops...degeneration wrote:global draw are the worst....scientific games, parent company of global draw and games media to name but a few....dont be a bonehead....its fukkin rigged man....
I think we've conclusively wrapped this one up now guys. The game that Patt plays is going to be truly random on the type of bets Patt lays and will not need to deviate. It will have a big enough buffer to offer genuine odds, plus the game runs a larger house advantage than 'traditional' roulette anyway.
It doesn't take an Einstein to see that these games are rigged. If it's not irritating anti-gambler buffers, it is out and out percentage reduction bufferring strategies. One of these concepts was applicable to most section 16 games back in the day.
THE SOFTWARE HAS ACCESS TO A CONSTANT STREAM OF RANDOM NUMBERS BUT WHAT IT DOES WITH THE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATED IS NOT ALWAYS WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT IT TO DO IF IT WERE A FAIR GAME.
Jimbo, I understand fully, you've hooked into the fact these aren't entirely fair. One point I have to pull you up on though. You say 'How can a random game pay to a percentage?', we've had this debate a few times before on the forums.
A roll of a die is as random as Goddamnit (let's assume that there is an equal chance of each number coming up when I throw the die in a fair manner). I offer you 4-1 if you bet on a number coming up. Say I'm too lazy to roll the die and I get a machine to do it for me and take your money for me. I code in some graphics and a fair interface that will generate some Goddamnit random numbers. I may not have installed the hyper blooper streamium Brownian bloopium poopium super duper mega quark smokey radioactive hyper Geiger wankybloop ultra true random generater, but it's random enough ok?
I'm poffling. Fact of the matter is you'll get £5 back for every £6 staked on average. That's a 5/6% payout. Just over 80% payout. That's a target percentage. My game may or may not pay to the target percentage, but the chance of it significantly deviating as we tend towards more 'throws' decreases.
The bottom line is.....
"IF you know these games are rigged so that you cannot prove a long term win or think they are rigged so you cannot prove a long term win and you carry on playing them - YOU ARE A MUG."
The same applies with on line poker.
I do not play FOBT roulette, bar the odd look at the y'know Patt system.
I play on line poker which offers fair distribution of cards, some people have access to software they shouldn't have(*), so you don't win quite as much as in a live game with larger rake, but the convenience of it is very appealing. I play on line poker and make about 19BB/hour on 3p/6p NL Hold 'em (stats used since October 1/2007).
So I'm hardly The Devilfish, never will be, but I win small pocket money.
(*) I only suspect this, it's not proven. Anecdotal only.
FOBTs are definitely skewed with buffers to pay to 97.2% or various lower settings.
It doesn't take an Einstein to see that these games are rigged. If it's not irritating anti-gambler buffers, it is out and out percentage reduction bufferring strategies. One of these concepts was applicable to most section 16 games back in the day.
THE SOFTWARE HAS ACCESS TO A CONSTANT STREAM OF RANDOM NUMBERS BUT WHAT IT DOES WITH THE RANDOM NUMBER GENERATED IS NOT ALWAYS WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT IT TO DO IF IT WERE A FAIR GAME.
Jimbo, I understand fully, you've hooked into the fact these aren't entirely fair. One point I have to pull you up on though. You say 'How can a random game pay to a percentage?', we've had this debate a few times before on the forums.
A roll of a die is as random as Goddamnit (let's assume that there is an equal chance of each number coming up when I throw the die in a fair manner). I offer you 4-1 if you bet on a number coming up. Say I'm too lazy to roll the die and I get a machine to do it for me and take your money for me. I code in some graphics and a fair interface that will generate some Goddamnit random numbers. I may not have installed the hyper blooper streamium Brownian bloopium poopium super duper mega quark smokey radioactive hyper Geiger wankybloop ultra true random generater, but it's random enough ok?
I'm poffling. Fact of the matter is you'll get £5 back for every £6 staked on average. That's a 5/6% payout. Just over 80% payout. That's a target percentage. My game may or may not pay to the target percentage, but the chance of it significantly deviating as we tend towards more 'throws' decreases.
The bottom line is.....
"IF you know these games are rigged so that you cannot prove a long term win or think they are rigged so you cannot prove a long term win and you carry on playing them - YOU ARE A MUG."
The same applies with on line poker.
I do not play FOBT roulette, bar the odd look at the y'know Patt system.
I play on line poker which offers fair distribution of cards, some people have access to software they shouldn't have(*), so you don't win quite as much as in a live game with larger rake, but the convenience of it is very appealing. I play on line poker and make about 19BB/hour on 3p/6p NL Hold 'em (stats used since October 1/2007).
So I'm hardly The Devilfish, never will be, but I win small pocket money.
(*) I only suspect this, it's not proven. Anecdotal only.
FOBTs are definitely skewed with buffers to pay to 97.2% or various lower settings.