BANNINGS FROM PUBS ONGOING NEWS

[cool]

After being banned from The Litten Tree Bournemouth March 2006 , the reason the area manager gave (I have in writing ) was " as you started to play the quiz machine and within a very short time of playing you won £20 from only a £1 stake. Martyn observed this situation and took it on himself to approach you and request politely , that you finish the game and leave , as staying on the machine could spoil it for other customers"
When approached by the Bournemouth Echo the manager/ area managers lost their voices and the media ( newspeak ) dept for Laurel responded with (I have the permission of the ECHO to reproduce this ) " The gaming and quiz machines we have in our pubs and bars are provided for the enjoyment of our customers. To protect their interests and give everyone a fair chance of success , it is our company policy and normal industry practice to keep a look out for anything which calls into question the validity of any win , and also to discouage players of a professional standard from playing the machines in our pubs.Its not fair on our other customers , who like to play them over a pint for a bit of fun and have the chance of winning a cash prize.In this particular case, the speed of scoring was highly unusual , which raised concerns with the pub manager , who acted in the interests of all his customers " except me!For winning £20 the manager Martyn Clarke banned me for life ! Your comments about him / my situation will be much appreciated on the forum. If you would like for me to send you the full article please leave your address on 07946-055506.I am receiving further media attention at present and I will keep you informed. I believe that the vast majority of the employees of the Laurel Pub Company are fair minded , but that the intellectual prejudice that operates by a minority (and in the pub industry as a whole)should be stamped out. When banned dont walk protest!

[Ernest W. Quality]

Some have said in other topics that in the past managers/staff have approached them positively after they won, because it let people know it was actually possible to win decent money, or that the skill level required is not superhuman.

Myself and the other VBers have found that we get bar staff watching you play and being impressed, or appreciative of ability. This has happened at least as often as having received bad vibes from staff.

Would he say the same about the fruit machine if someone won money quickly? Or if Phil Taylor goes and plays darts in his pub, will he be spoiling it for others because he is very good?

[QuizMaster]

I'm always getting banned from pubs. As a general rule of thumb you get banned only when the gaffers/staff are players themselves. Most pubs are quiet during the day and staff often play the quizzes instead of the fruits as they represent far better value. They get a pissed off when I come in and win.

It's an occupational hazard. I can't recall one pub I've ever been banned from where I haven't walked in 6 months later and they've remembered me. Pubs have more staff turnover than McDonalds. Unless they've put you on some pubwatch scheme I'd lap upa bit of publicity and then let it go.

Out of interest, I know of only 4 games on which you could feasibly have won £20 recently. Any chance you can share this with the forum to shut a few of the doubting thomases up who continually whine that it's impossible to win money on quizzes?

[cool]

I salute you ernest & quizmaster.Salient points. The quote he was spoiling it for others is a bit rich as I am only proficient in a couple of the games on the gamesnet. My personal favourites are tp & m (old edition).Millionaire is hard but the games that are the hardest to learn are often the best in the long run.Other games I can bits & pieces from.I often combine quiz playing with my other love ( running-I run for Southampton Running Club- admitedly Im not the fastest in fact im a bit of a donkey) so when Im in city centres Im in my element.My motto is speed not greed, so I do not have to get jackpots if I average £5 a pub and twenty pubs a day.

[foxy]

Hi Cool and all the other bannees(?).
A bit like quizmaster I've got quite a track record of getting banned from places albeit not so much recently(could this be linked to not being able to win so freely?).
The point made about staff is a salient one as the majority of trouble stems from places where staff play the machines themselves-therefore it's not the machine you're winning from- it's them.
I had a really bad run of banning about 6 years ago so I decided to buy a suit, with impressive results.I had magically transformed myself from student-style-know-it-all to respectable businessman and even though places obviously recognised me they really struggled to approach me when I was in disguise!! Ridiculous but true.
Sorry but this forum now gives me a chance to get rid of some pent-up frustration.So a big F.O. to the manager of the bank pub in queen st.glasgow who physically man-handled me out of his pub, to the manager who accused me of 'electronic wizardry' in the horseshoe bar(actually that's quite cool) and to my most recent banning which was 2 weks ago in edinburgh where the manager of jayne's on the road to leith threatened to'scatter' us.If anyone from edinburgh could tell me exactly what that entails I'd be most appreciative.
Good luck cool on your media flirtation, I long thought about such actions but didn't bother so good on you.The only time I went down that road I ended up on the front page of the Scotsman newspaper next to Serbian warlord Arkan!
Finally QM I liked you're assessment of jackpotable games at present-I'm going to have a wee think about that and I'll get back to you.
p.s. If anyone is in edinburgh and is prepared to go to Jayne's bar to rob the machine I think we'd happilly supply you with all the foxy answers!!!

[Cardinal Sin]

Jayne's ... is that not the really shady pool bar place near Haymarket Station??? Wouldn't look out of place in Trainspotting.

[foxy]

You're thinking Diane's your eminence.
Used to have machines but a little unsalubrious for someone of your standing.
Jayne's is half-way down from city centre to leith.

[Nil Satis]

Martyn observed this situation and took it on himself to approach you and request politely , that you finish the game and leave , as staying on the machine could spoil it for other customers

...

For winning £20 the manager Martyn Clarke banned me for life!

cool - I'm not doubting your story but what was it that turned a polite request to leave into a ban for life? Were the two things one and the same or did you respond badly (verbally or otherwise) to the request? If the latter then you really have to consider Plan B, which is to say 'It's a fair cop, I understand' and leave quietly even though you KNOW they are in the wrong. That way you could go back when the pub is busier - Litten Trees are usually packed on weekend nights - and (as QM implied) the chances are that you'll be able to slip in quietly and play the game again.

I'm not speaking as a newbie here in that I have played the games on and off for 20 years and I have never been barred once in all that time. The only 'tactics' I use that might have helped with this are (a) I try to play at busy times when the pubs are noisier - I've never played full time so am normally only free in the evenings anyway and (b) I never take the pi$$, which covers such things as being rude and/or aggressive (and I apologise if I have unfairly implied this happened in your case), not buying a drink and so on.

Keep up with the campaign though - they might well back down given the bad publicity. One point which may or may not be salient here - the Litten Tree pubs used to be run by a company called SFI Group, who also owned the Bar Med and Slug and Lettuce brands. They went into administration last year and sold some of the Litten Trees to the Laurel Pub Company (http://www.sfigroup.co.uk/content/Admin ... ration.htm). I wonder if the guy at Bournemouth was 'flexing his muscles' as a relatively new appointment or are the Laurel pubs known to have a specific policy on this?

[COASTERDESIGNERPRO1]

You should say to them that winning £20 on a £25 AWP is not unusual, if i had one £50+ then there would be reason to question my methods, and for you to ban me from paying these machines is just selfish and indecent.

[cool]

There are in my opinion 3 main reasons why a quiz machine player gets problems. Firstly ignorance.The person cannot believe that you have won
fairly, even though there is never any proof that you have cheated.I have been accused of using a system that is normally more complex than actually knowing the answers e.g " you remember a sequence of letters or the questions come out in a certain sequence".Ive even been banned from a pub on my 1st ever visit before I had actually won anything because the landlord told me "to play the machine properly or leave"in other words to lose. secondly jealously.The person loses consistently and resents you winning.Thirdly greed.expects to get 100%profit often confirmed by" youre taking my holiday money ".Why I received a lifetime ban only the licensee can say.The reason he gave me was that he thought It wasnt fair on the other customers. The reason he gave the police according to them was that he thought I was on the fiddle.The only aggression was from him after I had left the pub.The police wouldnt act.

[Istenem]

if you happen to be a journalist you can publish scathing (but accurate) reviews of the pub and then laugh at the publican when he calls to say "i'm going to speak to my solicitor."

[Nil Satis]

The reason he gave me was that he thought It wasnt fair on the other customers. The reason he gave the police according to them was that he thought I was on the fiddle.The only aggression was from him after I had left the pub.The police wouldnt act.

Unless the police were off duty and were helping you with the answers or they just happened to be walking past the pub at that exact moment, your argument with the pub manager must have gone on at a guess for 10-15 minutes and must have involved him (I assume) calling the police via the radios he and his doorstaff would carry. Which brings me back to your two options:

Plan A
- talk to the guy politely
- accept he is going to win this time even if that isn't fair
- leave quietly
- start planning your next visit when the pub is busier and you can win as you like

Plan B
- kick off a row
- have the police called
- get "barred for life" from that pub and possibly others in the same chain (accepting the practical difficulties that pubs have in actually enforcing such a ban, as QuizMaster describes)
- get publicity in the local papers which might make other pub managers in the vicinity keep an eye out for you
- potentially make things harder for ALL quiz machine players in that and nearby towns. AWPs have a guaranteed 30% take, SWPs do not for skilled players as we know, so if one pub chooses to replace their SWP with yet another AWP because of problems like this, we all lose out.

I'm not saying that any of what happened was right, no more than the ability that pub managers have to refuse entry or service to anyone they don't like (excepting provable cases of discrimination) is right but sometimes you have to bite the bullet for the longterm benefit of everyone and particularly yourself!

[cool]

This will be my last post concerning the banning. It was me that contacted the police ! It was not a normal banning . Lets just say physical contact was involved and it wasnt a handshake. If a player always accepts threats/ abuse / slander for fear of being banned from other pubs then the player is in the same position as the rogue publican.Both fear losing money and MONEY is their God , rather than having a decent set of principles to adhere to. A major chain pub is hardly likely to remove the machine because of instances like mine. I would in fact prefer it if machines were removed from pubs rather than the players. I cannot elaborate on what happenned as the police made sure that I couldnt get anywhere with my complaint ,with a deliberate approach or just an inadequate approach to my complaint. All of my correspondence with the police and pub company will be forwarded to The Morning Advertiser , that will probably provide its employees with much amusement if nothing else. The MD Julian Sargeson ( Laurel ) is a good guy , the other people involved during the rest of the fiasco are not (in my opinion).My arguement wasnt with Laurel , it was with just 2 employees of the company and the Bournemouth police. I thank everybody for their interest & support . COOL.

[QuizMaster]

You still haven't told us what you won the money on though matey

[QuizMaster]

I've thought of a fourth reason which may lead to a ban from a pub.

Walking in with a decaffinated teabag and asking the staff to make you a cup of tea, then going to the Gamesnet/itBox and whapping £20 out of a Pespi as fast as you like.

That'd probably get you banned.

Not that I'm suggesting anybody may have done that of course..........