I don't know about other people's recent experiences but I haven't found it all doom and gloom.On Monday I found that two stalwarts had depressingly lost their machines but then I found one that had got their machine back,and on Wednesday I discovered a Wetherspoons that had put a quiz machine back in,which is the first time I've seen that happen.Yesterday I successfully collected all of a bank that was in excess of 20 quid.So,some good news,some bad news.Today I've been re-reading (or possibly looking at for the first time) some old threads on here from 7 to 8 years ago and some of the subject matter was quite interesting,namely faulty coin mechanisms,games not being as good as they used to be and also Nil Satis talking about the lights going out.
My point is - that's not much difference from now really.Ok,there are fewer machines;in one thread about a poor game issue,QuizMaster was saying that bad games come and go but machines last forever,which has not been the case in many locations,but maybe in 7 to 8 years time,we'll still be playing machines and still complaining about the same things.
Mixed signals and re-reading old threads
Went out shopping with the wife last week in Solihull's centre (historically lots of machines) and suddenly felt the urge to see what was about, I haven't played for at least three years so I had no idea what to expect. I won't bore you with the details but there were machines to be played and there was very reasonable money available, I must confess I struggled to take a great deal of it, I was badly out of practice! What made me smile and bought me back to Fruit Chat and this thread was the sight of 'Nil Satis' at the top of a 'Roobarb and Custard' leaderboard, albeit with a score that had only won £3 it still reminded me of a bygone time!! The death of the industry is, I think, inevitable for all sorts of documented reasons but the bottom line is that machines don't in fact last forever and gradually they fall apart - they are no longer being replaced. Having said this I think Muddle has made a valid observation, seven or eight years might be optimistic but while the last knockings have undoubtable started I feel the evidence indicates they may well meander on for some time.
Ah Solihull is on my patch....yes it's still got a few machines floating about in the centre in so much as the two 'spoons in the centre still have machines.
You never know where they'll pop up though...for example a few months back I stumbled across two of them back to back in a Hollywood Bowl would you believe (cue frantic look at their locations in the U.K on their website!)
Today I stumbled across the Generous George pub chain Marstons have just started. It had a machine in I quite like at the minute * cough* Pub Connect * so a quick look at the FB page seems to show only 4 currently in the U.K although more are promised....
You never know where they'll pop up though...for example a few months back I stumbled across two of them back to back in a Hollywood Bowl would you believe (cue frantic look at their locations in the U.K on their website!)
Today I stumbled across the Generous George pub chain Marstons have just started. It had a machine in I quite like at the minute * cough* Pub Connect * so a quick look at the FB page seems to show only 4 currently in the U.K although more are promised....
Properpro makes a pertinent observation when he states that machines don't last forever,without any new hardware the decline will continue.That was why I was encouraged by the appearance (though admittedly not in great numbers) of Pub Connect,simply it was something new.I don't know why it doesn't have the most recent IQuest line-up of games on it though,although SoccerHQ will be hoping that continues for a while yet! I would say though that IQuest/Pub Connect machines do look more modern than Paragons and Gamesnets.
From looking at the games on the Pub Connect, it appears to be the same as the FatSpanner machine menu e.g. you get random stuff e.g. stuff like Rock Pop Quiz and pirate battleships or something like that, games you don't get on Paragons with added stuff like Footy Quiz added on.muddle wrote:Properpro makes a pertinent observation when he states that machines don't last forever,without any new hardware the decline will continue.That was why I was encouraged by the appearance (though admittedly not in great numbers) of Pub Connect,simply it was something new.I don't know why it doesn't have the most recent IQuest line-up of games on it though,although SoccerHQ will be hoping that continues for a while yet! I would say though that IQuest/Pub Connect machines do look more modern than Paragons and Gamesnets.
Yes I would imagine we'll see more Pub Connects popping up as like I quest they look aesthetically pleasing machines, play pretty well and also crucially for me they don't break down when you win more than a tenner.
It might be just me but over the last year I'm seeing less and less Paragons around in major pub chains and more Gamesnets and the two newer machines popping up so think the Paragons are becoming an extinct species
doom and gloom is only spread about when your cushty easy money earnings all get chipped and tightened up and basically makes you rethink what you have to play, go out and have a few sweaty days gambling and you think its the end of the world... you begin to wonder where was that arcade trick when i needed it early, where are all the emptys when you need them, been there many times, last week was one of these, i for one will move on and still be playing fruits in 10 years time, some will quit the game.
Fair enough but quizzers and fruits AREN'T the same man. Quiz games don't get chipped. Well, very rarely they do I suppose but not in the same way. We don't have 'empties' really, though occasionally the game might be too easy. Chalk and cheese mate.AG35 wrote:doom and gloom is only spread about when your cushty easy money earnings all get chipped and tightened up and basically makes you rethink what you have to play, go out and have a few sweaty days gambling and you think its the end of the world... you begin to wonder where was that arcade trick when i needed it early, where are all the emptys when you need them, been there many times, last week was one of these, i for one will move on and still be playing fruits in 10 years time, some will quit the game.
I wondered why my ears were burning... ;-)
To be fair, that thread isn't anything like as old as you imply - it was started in 2012 at the point when machines disappearing was starting to become a regular and noticeable pattern, something much more obvious than just 'gain one, lose one'. I now fully expect to lose around 5 to 10 machines during any week in which I'm visiting a few locations.muddle wrote:... and also Nil Satis talking about the lights going out
That's simply a pragmatic approach - after the £3 win there is a big jump to the next prize, and I've often lost my Try Again and Pass by that stage, so I always aim to stop at that point.Properpro wrote:the sight of 'Nil Satis' at the top of a 'Roobarb and Custard' leaderboard, albeit with a score that had only won £3
Only one of the 'Spoons still has a machine, unless the one that had gone in May has reappeared since then...SoccerHQ wrote:Ah Solihull is on my patch....yes it's still got a few machines floating about in the centre in so much as the two 'spoons in the centre still have machines.
No,it wasn't the thread that you started in 2012 I was referring to Nil,you started one in early 2007 called something like 'The End is nigh' and you used the expression 'the lights going out' at the end of your post.It's not that I disagree with your analysis though,losing about 5 machines a week seems about right notwithstanding the odd new location - I just wonder (and hope) whether the lights might go out quite slowly.In fact,the super-optimist in me is still hoping for a renaissance!
I was out yesterday playing machines (though it seemed I'd left my brain at home - anybody else have days like that?) and was going to launch into a long post today but I read some old threads on here first,and realised that nearly all of what I was going to say,and also stuff that I've already posted,has already been mentioned.People like Quizmaster,cool,grecian and Nil Satis (sorry to make your ears burn again,Nil!) were talking about issues such as poor game quality,poor hardware,'wins' of less than a pound and the SWP regulations years ago.Damn,I've always been unoriginal lol.
But,as regards the regulations,what is the current situation - is there still the old SWP and AWP categories or did that get swept away by the Machine Game Duty that was brought in?
Assuming the 2010 SWP regulations to still be valid: Looking back now,this seems a bit of a watershed.The two years before it I was doing quite nicely despite there being a recession on and you would think less money being put in by punters.Since then,things have generally declined.I think a lot of this is down to the industry not reacting well to these regulations.They state,as I recall,that every prize advertised should be available in each game,and any reaction time that forms part of a game should be humanly possible (or words to that effect).Since then we've seen a number of games whose maximum prize can go down to 50p which can hardly encourage the casual punter to play it.Essentially I think they've bent (or maybe broken) the rules in the wrong places.For example,I sometimes play that Words game on the Paragons which is like Boggle,and the other day the top prize was two quid and it needed 5500 points to get it.It's not humanly possible to type in the 300 words needed to get that in 2 minutes.I cannot see any way that Pointless qualifies purely as a skill game,unless you count playing it so often that you've learnt all the assigned values as 'skill'.(Not that I'm disappointed with the appearance of the game on the quizzies) There's a few games that require following bonuses/prizes that move far quicker than I can follow,but I suppose maybe others can.
So,what I would like to see the designers do is to have some games that always have a largeish prize available but when the machine doesn't want to pay,then maybe have that 'superhuman' requirement then.Lots of the early quiz games had a 'time pressure' element to them - why not bring that idea back? I think of the newish games that a few have been quite good and would appeal to a younger generation but have been let down by the prize structure.'Pixel This' is a good example - I normally check the jackpot on that and Pointless - and I'm seeing a few stuck on 0.50 without any evidence of someone playing it recently.Quite possibly punters know how to check what the prize offered is going to be,and when realising how low it is decide not to bother playing it.I'm sure it would be better to have a much higher minimum jackpot with a combination of the time running out quicker and the points required to win the jackpot being pushed up considerably.
In older threads,there were occasionally people from within the industry who posted - I wonder if anyone still reads this forum.If they do,have a think of what I and others have been saying please.I,and I suspect others would say the same,am always available for a PM.
But,as regards the regulations,what is the current situation - is there still the old SWP and AWP categories or did that get swept away by the Machine Game Duty that was brought in?
Assuming the 2010 SWP regulations to still be valid: Looking back now,this seems a bit of a watershed.The two years before it I was doing quite nicely despite there being a recession on and you would think less money being put in by punters.Since then,things have generally declined.I think a lot of this is down to the industry not reacting well to these regulations.They state,as I recall,that every prize advertised should be available in each game,and any reaction time that forms part of a game should be humanly possible (or words to that effect).Since then we've seen a number of games whose maximum prize can go down to 50p which can hardly encourage the casual punter to play it.Essentially I think they've bent (or maybe broken) the rules in the wrong places.For example,I sometimes play that Words game on the Paragons which is like Boggle,and the other day the top prize was two quid and it needed 5500 points to get it.It's not humanly possible to type in the 300 words needed to get that in 2 minutes.I cannot see any way that Pointless qualifies purely as a skill game,unless you count playing it so often that you've learnt all the assigned values as 'skill'.(Not that I'm disappointed with the appearance of the game on the quizzies) There's a few games that require following bonuses/prizes that move far quicker than I can follow,but I suppose maybe others can.
So,what I would like to see the designers do is to have some games that always have a largeish prize available but when the machine doesn't want to pay,then maybe have that 'superhuman' requirement then.Lots of the early quiz games had a 'time pressure' element to them - why not bring that idea back? I think of the newish games that a few have been quite good and would appeal to a younger generation but have been let down by the prize structure.'Pixel This' is a good example - I normally check the jackpot on that and Pointless - and I'm seeing a few stuck on 0.50 without any evidence of someone playing it recently.Quite possibly punters know how to check what the prize offered is going to be,and when realising how low it is decide not to bother playing it.I'm sure it would be better to have a much higher minimum jackpot with a combination of the time running out quicker and the points required to win the jackpot being pushed up considerably.
In older threads,there were occasionally people from within the industry who posted - I wonder if anyone still reads this forum.If they do,have a think of what I and others have been saying please.I,and I suspect others would say the same,am always available for a PM.
I don't disagree with much of what you say, but a couple of points:
- for that 'Boggle' game, if I am correct in assuming you mean '# Words', then you don't have to type in the letters in the words, you can scroll smoothly from letter to letter, which speeds things up considerably. Longer words also give higher scores so you wouldn't need to get as many words as you suggest, but your general point is fair. It certainly doesn't get anything like the same play as Word Soup, which was one of the few games you could always rely on seeing punters play on a reasonably regular basis and whose removal from many Paragons is simply mystifying
- I would class Pointless as skill-based, at least as much as the more conventional Q&A games. There are some really ropey subjects (e.g. Friends episodes), a few subjects where the scores all seem ridiculously high (they must have interviewed the world's leading vulcanologists if the answers to the Famous Volcanoes round are to be believed!) and the occasional answer within an otherwise fair category that just seems wrong, but overall I'd say the answers were pretty fair. The resetting to JPs that are under a couple of quid, on the other hand, is really poor and will ensure that even slightly savvy punters will just stop playing the game in that location
- for that 'Boggle' game, if I am correct in assuming you mean '# Words', then you don't have to type in the letters in the words, you can scroll smoothly from letter to letter, which speeds things up considerably. Longer words also give higher scores so you wouldn't need to get as many words as you suggest, but your general point is fair. It certainly doesn't get anything like the same play as Word Soup, which was one of the few games you could always rely on seeing punters play on a reasonably regular basis and whose removal from many Paragons is simply mystifying
- I would class Pointless as skill-based, at least as much as the more conventional Q&A games. There are some really ropey subjects (e.g. Friends episodes), a few subjects where the scores all seem ridiculously high (they must have interviewed the world's leading vulcanologists if the answers to the Famous Volcanoes round are to be believed!) and the occasional answer within an otherwise fair category that just seems wrong, but overall I'd say the answers were pretty fair. The resetting to JPs that are under a couple of quid, on the other hand, is really poor and will ensure that even slightly savvy punters will just stop playing the game in that location
Time element muddle has been brought up by myself more than once in the very distant past , supernudge , suit pursuit , GUAB , quizmaster either speeded up or peaked at a very quick countown velocity.
Fruit Machine £1 , 5 secs of entertainment , quiz machines should all be £1 a play with perhaps a guaranteed minimum time of play e.g THE CHASE
Fruit Machine £1 , 5 secs of entertainment , quiz machines should all be £1 a play with perhaps a guaranteed minimum time of play e.g THE CHASE
I agree entirely cool,some of those old games would work well if brought back today (with a much larger question database).Also I think it is time to try a pound a play games again,and a game with a guaranteed minimum time of play (or amount of questions) would be a sensible start.Something along the lines of the old 'Radio Times' game would work well - guaranteed at least 18 questions,and then a time based end game to win the prize.It also had TV clips which no games have now.cool wrote:Time element muddle has been brought up by myself more than once in the very distant past , supernudge , suit pursuit , GUAB , quizmaster either speeded up or peaked at a very quick countown velocity.
Fruit Machine £1 , 5 secs of entertainment , quiz machines should all be £1 a play with perhaps a guaranteed minimum time of play e.g THE CHASE