Are quiz machine winnings liable to tax?

muddle · Post by **muddle** » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:20 pm

This is something I've often wondered about,but never checked out for official confirmation for some reason lol.From what I can tell,checking online and particularly this: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim22017.htm ,it seems that the answer is that they are non-taxable,but does anyone actually know a definitive answer?

wires74 · Post by **wires74** » Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:50 pm

who knows

Topical2009 · Post by **Topical2009** » Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:25 pm

Actually, I think at least one poster on here knows, as I'm pretty sure he's declared himself as such to his local tax office and pays a voluntary NI stamp. I thought I'd leave it to someone who can confirm, but FWIW I've always thought quiz machine winnings fell into the same category as winning on the horses or bingo, so you don't need to declare them for tax purposes. Sadly, of course, I suspect that these days pretty much everyone in the country who earns above the personal allowance threshold from quiz machines could sit around one pub table without too much squeezing up.

Drpepper · Post by **Drpepper** » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:04 pm

You can't be taxed on gambling winnings as it wouldn't be feasible as then by that logic gambling losses would be tax deductible, plus companies already pay tax on profits so the government still makes its money

bubbles · Post by **bubbles** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:00 am

Doesn't everybody that make their living from machines pay for the voluntary ni stamp?! Better to be safe than sorry...

quizard · Post by **quizard** » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:17 am

bubbles wrote:Doesn't everybody that make their living from machines pay for the voluntary ni stamp?! Better to be safe than sorry...

Paying voluntary NI contribution could turn out to be a complete waste of money depending on your circumstances and how long you manage to live. To get any benefit at all you are going to last while are at least 66 or 68 for you younger ones. And even then you will only get a benefit from it if you have an income from other sources and/or a substantial capital assets. If you reach retirement age with no other regular income and no large capital you would still get the guaranteed minimum pension which is the same amount as the new contribution based state pension even if you had never paid a single NI contribution. You would also qualify for full housing/council tax benefit.

And in the past I have known plenty of players who while making a substantial income from quiz/gaming machines far from making any contribution had enjoyed a nice state subsidy in form of jobseekers/incapacity benefit/housing council tax benefit etc etc LOL.

bubbles · Post by **bubbles** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:15 am

I thought you got significantly more than the guaranteed minimum state pension, i.e full state pension when you hit a certain amount of years paid in? And other benefits if you die etc?

Seems a small price to pay just in case!

cool · Post by **cool** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:12 am

Exactly Quizard. I dont mind people claiming benefits if they actually require it but I suspect there are plenty of people on these forums who stash their winnings under the mattress or simply do not declare their banked winnings and remain undetected milking the system ...........and who boast of making a living from machines.
From the day I jacked my job in I vowed never to claim a penny of benefit . If I had to I would be looking for a job.
As regards Voluntary Stamp it shouldnt be all about what you will get out of it and its a small price to pay.
I indeed was the person who approached the Tax Office , and swp's winnings remain untaxable.

Nil Satis · Post by **Nil Satis** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:03 pm

Do you have a plan for what comes next, or does the machine loss rate have to get significantly worse for it to become a consideration? In the smaller towns near me - the ones where I can be pretty confident of knowing EVERY pub and machine, so can keep on top of all machine losses and pub closures - the loss rate since around the start of 2012 has been 50-80%, with most of that being machine losses as opposed to pub closures. As examples, in two relatively affluent market towns near me, it's gone from 12 machines down to 2 (with one pub closure) and 16 down to 4 (two closures) in that period. The overall loss rate is less in the larger locations but it's still obvious everywhere I go.

cool · Post by **cool** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:37 pm

I dont need to worry about what comes next , I will just chill out , less machines lessens my addiction at the right time.

Nil Satis · Post by **Nil Satis** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:04 pm

Yes, but I presume you aren't giving away your winnings to charity at the end of each day? I had understood based on your previous posts that machining was your main or indeed only form of income, and if enough of the machines disappear, there must be a point where it is no longer practical to play them for a living. After all, it's not like the early days where you can revisit the same machine regularly. Unless you have built up really substantial savings over the years (and, if you have, then fair play to you), you won't be able to rely on machines for ever.

In some ways it's a wonder they have lasted this long, and the outside forces that are partly causing their removal (pubs closing/changing in nature, the rise of online and mobile gaming etc) don't seem likely to reverse even if the industry is suddenly able to affect the issues that ARE under their control, notably rubbish games and the machines' poor reliability in all aspects.

paragoon · Post by **paragoon** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:09 pm

Nil Satis wrote:Yes, but I presume you aren't giving away your winnings to charity at the end of each day? I had understood based on your previous posts that machining was your main or indeed only form of income, and if enough of the machines disappear, there must be a point where it is no longer practical to play them for a living. After all, it's not like the early days where you can revisit the same machine regularly. Unless you have built up really substantial savings over the years (and, if you have, then fair play to you), you won't be able to rely on machines for ever.

In some ways it's a wonder they have lasted this long, and the outside forces that are partly causing their removal (pubs closing/changing in nature, the rise of online and mobile gaming etc) don't seem likely to reverse even if the industry is suddenly able to affect the issues that ARE under their control, notably rubbish games and the machines' poor reliability in all aspects.

FWIW I'm bricking it. I don't see the skills I've learnt from the last few years as particularly transferable. I mean what are they? A great memory, general knowledge and ability to learn loads of things off by heart? That's about it.
It's interesting that some of us have been prophesying the end of the quiz machine for ages. There's surely no doubt now? There's just not enough machines for it to add up. Not to mention that train fares have pretty much doubled in the last few years and JPs have more than halved.

streakseims · Post by **streakseims** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:33 pm

If you have over £16,000 in the bank you cant claim JSA if you are then most likely you do not have £16,000 in savings. No one would keep £20-£30k in cash laying around nor would a fruit machine player dare to et others keep hold of it for them when they don't even trust the local who has told you the bandit has already paid out lol

tonkarentino · Post by **tonkarentino** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:09 am

streakseims wrote:If you have over £16,000 in the bank you cant claim JSA if you are then most likely you do not have £16,000 in savings. No one would keep £20-£30k in cash laying around nor would a fruit machine player dare to et others keep hold of it for them when they don't even trust the local who has told you the bandit has already paid out lol

Not entirely true...If you'd worked prior to going full time within a reasonable period going back you could claim the Contribution based JSA which isn't means tested and therefore savings have no effect...It's all about relevant tax years. Mind you that only lasts for 6 months these days and you are still subject to all the find work "incentives" .....

muddle · Post by **muddle** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:28 pm

Thanks for the definitive answer,cool.I am completely with you in that if you're playing machines full time and that is your 'living' then you shouldn't be claiming anything.As regards the continued feasibility of relying on quiz machines to provide a living,I am still not quite running up the white flag just yet.I was chatting to a barman yesterday who must have been around 20 years old,and he was telling me how much he and his mates like playing the quizzy as a group.The Golden Age may well have gone,but I am still hopeful of there being a reasonable amount of machines in the future.As a parallel,there are definitely fewer dartboards and pool tables in pubs than there were 20-30 years ago,but there are still some.Also,they are still designing new games and even new cabinets,so I do see a little hope.What would be useful,in my opinion,is if there were a really popular new quiz/game show;that could have the effect that Who wants to be a millionaire and Deal or no Deal had in the past.If the worst came to the worst though,while a pro quizzy player's CV might look somewhat unusual,I disagree a little with paragoon's not overly positive assessment of his skills.If you can play quizzies for a living,you've got to be pretty clever,and there must be a few jobs where having a great memory and being prepared to work unusual hours on your own are assets.Ok,not that I can think of any of the top of my head,but come on,chin up,paragoon!