Fruit Machine Chat

I know some of you Word Up gurus like to dabble in Sum Up, so a quick question - do you need to clear the entire board for a clearance or just the numbers i.e. if you are left with only the signs (+, -, x, ÷) does that still count as a clearance?

I haven't actually cleared the board yet but last night got the closest yet, with four numbers left that didn't make 13, for a total score of 1991 (although the scores are obviously not directly comparable as I would RETIRE if I ever got 1991 for a non-clearance on Word Up!). On this occasion there were still a few signs left, but I have had a close call with only numbers left.

To give me something to aim for, what is the Sum Up 'World Record'?

That's good going - to get that close to a clearance. Unfortunately chances of having anything that sums to 13 left at the end are pretty low (1 in 13, I guess - if you don't have any operators to play around with too)

The highest score thus far is by Ernest:

NFM Cambridge Arms, Cambridge EW QUALITY 3056

My highest is 2704, but I don't play as often as he does.

The highest we've seen by any non-VB player is:

'Gibbs Rach' Oriel College bar, Oxford GIBBS RACH 2825

So, no clearance yet - something to aim for!

You need 2600 to get on the national Sum Up board.
I hardly ever play it as only 3/4 pubs in town have it and none of them are particularly near me. And since there's no real money in it, and I've already got the top scores there, very little motivation to play. I have never actually cleared the grid though. You want to keep at least one operator (not a plus) near the end so if it doesn't add to a multiple of thirteen, you still have a hope of winging it.

What on earth are you talking about
Clearing SumUp is impossible. WU yes but SU no way.

tka wrote:What on earth are you talking about
Clearing SumUp is impossible. WU yes but SU no way.

Sounds like a challenge!

Usually, we try to look for nice, long, stringy sums for big points but I guess we could stab away quickly to maximise endgame creation - and chance says one in thirteen endgames will clear...

Now, clearing the Word Wall is the true challenge.

vaginalbob wrote:and chance says one in thirteen endgames will clear...

Less... even when it is the correct residue mod 13, it may not be possible because length of sums are restricted (e.g. you can't take 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1). Also the shape and/or values may prevent you combining the tiles in the right way, even if the total adds to a multiple of 13 say.

e.g.

0005
9237

So just to confirm - has no one out there in Fruitchat Land recorded a clearance at Sum Up? If so, there is indeed a challenge!

Not as far as we know. I tend to play and try and break my own record.

I've never even seen the beast. Is it on the it-box?

Does it give you a different mix of operators and numbers each game? (like Word-up giving you differing amounts of vowels and consonants.

And is there a downloadable version I could practice on?

Ernest, do you think it is possible to clear in normal circumstances (i.e. without highly improbable order to the given tiles)?
i only play this for an easy couple of quid through stabbing, my arithmetical ability is just not up to it. best i've done is probably about 60% of the grid cleared leaving detritus like - -7 1 - - - - - 3 - - - - -2. Is the strategy advanced re. clearances?

i've got a job at bletchley park for the first person to clear SU.

Your Eminence, afaik it is only on some gamesnet machines.

Sum Up is indeed found on Gamesnet machines, particularly the large oval cabinets (including the vile new version which has virtually nothing else left on of any interest to serious players).

Maybe the difficulty varies in different regions but I am certainly getting as close to clearing on Sum Up as I ever do on Word Up, where I have only ever cleared once, plus a second time when my final word of 'UGLI' was not allowed.

The key tip for me in terms of making a clearance possible is to always use as many operators as possible as you go along, rather than relying on the default that two adjoining numbers are summed if you don't use an operator, i.e. try to select '9 + 3 + 1' rather than simply selecting the three adjoining numbers 9, 3 and 1. That way you reduce the number of operators you are left with.

One other tip which may seem obvious is that, unlike in Word Up, you don't need to know how your sum ends when you start it. I often do the first half of a sum completely 'blind', e.g. 9 * 8 / 7 ... then see what is possible with the remainder. With Word Up, other than adding suffixes such as -ED, it seems to me that you can't ever improvise in quite the same way.

P.S. Before anyone asks, I'm not making a penny from Sum Up as the machines I play on seemed to be 'dead' from the start, i.e. the points needed is always high and there doesn't seem to be a high score that would equate to an initial Jackpot having been won by some lucky soul. I play this one strictly for pleasure...

cardinal richelieu wrote:And is there a downloadable version I could practice on?

Not AFAIK.

Nil Satis wrote:Maybe the difficulty varies in different regions but I am certainly getting as close to clearing on Sum Up as I ever do on Word Up,

It is very easy to get "close" to clearing Sum Up, by just playing fast and binning operators, but the reality is that once you've got close (e.g. about 10 numbers left), the chances are in fact still heavily against you. I'd say in Word Up it is slightly harder to get to the endgame (i.e. about 10 decent letters left), but once you're there, it is much easier to clear (or to ascertain if it is possible to do so).

What is your record score? (Overall, and also individual sum?)

The key tip for me in terms of making a clearance possible is to always use as many operators as possible as you go along, rather than

Yes but you should do that anyway to get a bigger score. And you want a maximum of 2 operators when you have about 10 numbers left I think. Not including plus because it's redundant.

One other tip which may seem obvious is that, unlike in Word Up, you don't need to know how your sum ends when you start it. I often do the first half of a sum completely 'blind', e.g. 9 * 8 / 7 ... then see what is possible with the remainder.

This is the crucial strategy to get big sums fast. The counter on the top left tells you the total of what you've entered so far, so it helps you "finish off" the sum correctly. [The top-left counter in Word Up doesn't help you nearly so much, it only tells you the points your partial word is worth, not how to extend it!]

I recommend looking at the initial grid, finding an area with several * and / close together, and making the sort of string with 3 or 4 numbers you suggest, looking at the counter to see what the total is, then trying to use the surrounding numbers to finish it.

So really there is not much arithmetic going on at all, just educated guesswork. It helps to know your thirteen times-table of course.

My favourite sum is still 9x9x9/8/7... most points possible.

unknownpseudonym wrote:Ernest, do you think it is possible to clear in normal circumstances (i.e. without highly improbable order to the given tiles)?

Certainly. If your aim is to clear with a decent score you should play as you normally would (i.e. getting big sums with maximum length), but after a while you need to get to the end-game; start hacking and dealing with areas with too many operators closer together. Also with too many large/small numbers together. By the time you have about 12 numbers left you probably want to have at most 1 or 2 operators and 30 secs or so to try and figure out if it can be done: which involves adding up all the numbers to see what the residue is modulo 13 (i.e. if I subtract the preceding multiple of thirteen, what is the remainder). Then you want to use the last operator(s) you have left to make the remainder zero.

Here's a simple illustrative example:

004X
9433
6785

The numbers total 49, and the preceding multiple of 13 is 13*3 = 39, thus we are 10 over (residue of 10 modulo 13). So we need to create an extra 3, or 3+13, or 3+26 etc (or lose 10, or 10+13, or 10+26, etc) to make it a multiple of 13. This can only be done using the operators (and + wouldn't help).

If the only remaining operator is a multiply (as in this case), then I am looking for two numbers N and M next to the X which can be used to gain 3, i.e. we need N and M such that NxM = N+M+3 (or =N+M+16, or =N+M+29 etc, adding 13 each time). This can be written as:
(N-1)x(M-1)=4 (or 17 or 30 etc)

So possible answers would be N-1 = 1 and M-1 = 4 (i.e. N=2, M=5), or N-1 = 2, M-1 = 2 (i.e. N=3, M=3). I then need to hope that it is possible to make a 2x5 or a 3x3 (it is in this example grid). If not I need to consider (N-1)x(M-1)=30 (17 is no use to us since it is prime). So here we could have N=7, M=6, or N=11 M=4 but N and M must be 9 or lower. Etc etc.

Here it is straightforward since there are two threes next to the X, so it is possible. I can clear with these sums: 3x3+4, 9+4, 6+7, 8+5.

You can follow a similar method if you had a minus or a divide sign instead of X, and if you had more than one operator you could consider combinations. I do not recommend these tactics though as it is quite difficult to do all this in your head in the pub.

So in general it is hard to "make" a clearance, especially if there is a cloud of smoke and jukebox music in your face. It's easier to just wing it and hope for the best. But you can maximise your chance by having not many operators and a good shape near the end. If you play it enough times follow these basic principles to give yourself a better chance, you will get lucky eventually.

I almost never play for the clearance unless I happen to have used almost everything up in an attempt to get as big sums as possible. Then I might think about forcing a clearance, but it hasn't happened yet.

You lost me on

EWQ wrote: Here's a simple illustrative example:

004X
9433
6785

simple?

Maybe I am just thick

Great post EWQ! but personally I can't even count for darts.
Some of the words you used are a bit scarey and the numbers are way over my head, I am rubbish at SU but it shows that things you don't know about have massive levels of skill.

We have all played football not very well and been impressed by Beckham, Ronaldinho ect. But any game is like that I know bugger all about fencing but the guys who are best in the world must have practised very hard.

My best score on Sum Up is about 800 ops:

But above I came to the conclusion that the best tactic, in noisy pub conditions, is based almost entirely on being a jammy git, so there's hope for everyone.