From what i can find out this seems to be a grey area.
How old do you have to be to play on the quiz machine(itbox)?
My local pub says my son has to be 18 as it pays a prize, yet there are games on the machine which are clearly directed towards kids eg, Wacky faces.
The swp does not state anywhere on it an age limit like the fruit machine has to.
Thanks in advance, Mike.
How old to play?
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Matt Vinyl
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7198
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: Lost in the outback, Bryan
What total and utter tosh. Do you actually believe what you have just said?cool wrote:I agree but the government caved in to save the pubs .....
swp's are supposed to have stickers on them or on the wall next to them stating that only 18+ can play them.
SWPs are not gambling, so anyone can play them. They can be put anywhere, and played by anyone; that's why you see SWPs outside the over 18s area in Motorway services.
Why on earth would you put a sticker on a wall stating that 18+ can play them?
Yawwwwwn, snif snif.... I can smell roses.
Oh, I'm so scared.
3 Permit holders should put into effect procedures intended to prevent underage gambling. This should include procedures for:
• checking the age of apparently underage customers; and
• refusing access to anyone who appears to be underage, and who tries to use category B or C gaming machines and cannot produce an acceptable form of identification
Definition of Category C gaming machine
4. A machine is a Category C machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than 50 pence;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £35; and
(c) it is not a Category D machine.
Definition of Category B gaming machine
5.—(1) There shall be five sub-categories of Category B to be known as sub-categories B1, B2, B3, B3A and B4.
(2) A machine is a sub-category B4 machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than £1;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £250; and
(c) it is not a Category C or D machine.
(3) A machine is a sub-category B3A machine if—
(a) it enables a person to participate in a lottery but not in any other form of gambling;
(b) it is made available for use by a members’ club or a miners’ welfare institute(3);
(c) the maximum charge for use is no more than £1;
(d) the maximum prize value is no more than £500; and
(e) it is not a sub-category B4 machine or a Category C or D machine.
(4) A machine is a sub-category B3 machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than £1;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £500; and
(c) it is not a sub-category B3A or B4 machine or a Category C or D machine.
(5) A machine is a sub-category B2 machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than £100;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £500; and
(c) it is not a sub-category B3, B3A or B4 machine or a Category C or D machine.
(6) A machine is a sub-category B1 machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than £2;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £4,000; and
(c) it is not a sub-category B2, B3, B3A or B4 machine or a Category C or D machine.
Allocation of sub-categories
who is the one talking out of a dark space?
just because a law isnt applied doesnt mean its not the law.If thats not good enough for you Ill e-mail the Gambling Commission on Monday
• checking the age of apparently underage customers; and
• refusing access to anyone who appears to be underage, and who tries to use category B or C gaming machines and cannot produce an acceptable form of identification
Definition of Category C gaming machine
4. A machine is a Category C machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than 50 pence;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £35; and
(c) it is not a Category D machine.
Definition of Category B gaming machine
5.—(1) There shall be five sub-categories of Category B to be known as sub-categories B1, B2, B3, B3A and B4.
(2) A machine is a sub-category B4 machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than £1;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £250; and
(c) it is not a Category C or D machine.
(3) A machine is a sub-category B3A machine if—
(a) it enables a person to participate in a lottery but not in any other form of gambling;
(b) it is made available for use by a members’ club or a miners’ welfare institute(3);
(c) the maximum charge for use is no more than £1;
(d) the maximum prize value is no more than £500; and
(e) it is not a sub-category B4 machine or a Category C or D machine.
(4) A machine is a sub-category B3 machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than £1;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £500; and
(c) it is not a sub-category B3A or B4 machine or a Category C or D machine.
(5) A machine is a sub-category B2 machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than £100;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £500; and
(c) it is not a sub-category B3, B3A or B4 machine or a Category C or D machine.
(6) A machine is a sub-category B1 machine if—
(a) the maximum charge for use is no more than £2;
(b) the maximum prize value is no more than £4,000; and
(c) it is not a sub-category B2, B3, B3A or B4 machine or a Category C or D machine.
Allocation of sub-categories
who is the one talking out of a dark space?
just because a law isnt applied doesnt mean its not the law.If thats not good enough for you Ill e-mail the Gambling Commission on Monday
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mikehilton
- Member
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:50 am
Copied from another forum.
This appears to clear things up as to no age restrictions(Bottom section).
here we go. NO AGE RESTRICTIONS.
its in the bottom section. and this is from wikipedia, and the BACTA site
1. History
The quiz machine first appeared on the scene in the UK in 1985. The first such machine was called Quizmaster which was made by the Cardiff based now defunct Coinmaster Ltd. This was rapidly followed by quiz machines from other manufacturers.
Over the following years quiz machines/SWP's became a regular feature of the British pub. Leading SWP manufacturers of the 1980s and 1990s were: Coinmaster, JPM, Barcrest, Bell-Fruit, Maygay and Ace-Coin. The themes of many SWP games were (and still are) based on popular TV quiz shows, board games or other aspects of popular culture.
Initially quiz machines were 20p play offering a £10 maximum prize per play. This was increased to £12 in 1988 and £20 around 1991. Appearing in 1994 JPM's Monopoly SWP was the first 50p play machine. It was also the first machine to use touch screen technology instead of buttons.
In the late 1990s a few quiz machines/SWPs offered £40 jackpots. Although many new quiz machines during this period actually offered lower jackpot prizes such as £5, and had gameplays and payout structures that seemed designed to frustrate professional players. This approach however seemed to make the games less interesting for all players. In 2000 the quiz machine market did find new life however with the arrival of the highly popular Who Wants To Be A Millionaire quiz machine.
2. Professional Quiz Machine Players
The arrival on the scene in 1985 of SWP/quiz machines quickly led to the existence of a cohort of professional and semi-professional players. These were people who became highly skilled on particular games being able learn and memorise nearly entire questions sets for a particular machine. They could then make substantial incomes from touring many different quiz machine locations and extracting money from the particular types of machine in which they were skilled.
Over the years the size of quiz machine question sets has steadily increased, with the extensive use of "spoiler" questions to make large multiple wins difficult or impossible. Since the mid-1990s gameplay formats have also become a lot less "Pro" friendly. Today it is still possible for very skilled players to make worthwhile money playing SWPs but it is much harder than in the past.
3. The Quiz Machine/SWP Today
A fundamental change occurred in the nature of SWPs in the early 2000s. Single games in stand-alone cabinets were discontinued and replaced by multi-game terminals. Some of these can run a choice of up to 25-30 different games on the same machine. Some are also able to provide services other than gaming. These units can be managed and updated remotely through an ISDN or ADSL network connection.
Leading multigame terminals and their manufacturers at present are:
•itbox made by Maygay Ltd and originally used exclusively by Leisure Link, all machines are now owned by GamesTec.
•Paragon made by Games Warehouse
•FatBox Slim made by Fat Spanner
•Ind:e and Indego made by GamesMedia/Channel1
•Gamesnet made by GamesTec
Today most SWP/quiz machine games offer a nominal £20 jackpot for 50p play and a few offer £40 for £1 play. But on present day games the payout is carefully controlled and manipulated by the software. Payout levels are set at lower levels than previously.
4. Legal grey areas
An SWP machine must offer the chance to win the jackpot on every game, however the level of skill involved to do that is set so high as to be virtually impossible. Manufacturers have, at times, set the skill level so high that it is physically impossible to achieve this. Because there is no governing body for skill games, the only time this is brought into question is when the gaming authorities are alerted and take court action to prove or disprove that this is the case.In practise, this is very rare as the gaming authorities have no jurisdiction over skill machines and the only way for a prosecution to succeed is to prove that the game in question breaks the law in some way.
This can be done by proving that the machine differs to the legal definition of a skill machine which says that a player must be allowed to win prizes by skill alone. If there is an element of luck in the game it is automatically classed as a game of chance and is legally bound by the gambling commission legislation.
Many manufacturers push this boundary to the limit and sometimes into the grey area of legal definitions beyond.
The stake/prize level of a skill machine is also a grey area, as there is no legal limit on either, although most manufacturers abide by a gentleman's agreement with BACTA (a trade organisation) to limit both amounts to levels that are unlikely to attract the attention of legislators. Skill machines can legally be sited anywhere and played by anyone of any age, although there seems to be a lot of confusion about this, with some people assuming age limits and site restrictions must exist because of the similarity between these machines and AWP machines (fruit machines).
This appears to clear things up as to no age restrictions(Bottom section).
here we go. NO AGE RESTRICTIONS.
its in the bottom section. and this is from wikipedia, and the BACTA site
1. History
The quiz machine first appeared on the scene in the UK in 1985. The first such machine was called Quizmaster which was made by the Cardiff based now defunct Coinmaster Ltd. This was rapidly followed by quiz machines from other manufacturers.
Over the following years quiz machines/SWP's became a regular feature of the British pub. Leading SWP manufacturers of the 1980s and 1990s were: Coinmaster, JPM, Barcrest, Bell-Fruit, Maygay and Ace-Coin. The themes of many SWP games were (and still are) based on popular TV quiz shows, board games or other aspects of popular culture.
Initially quiz machines were 20p play offering a £10 maximum prize per play. This was increased to £12 in 1988 and £20 around 1991. Appearing in 1994 JPM's Monopoly SWP was the first 50p play machine. It was also the first machine to use touch screen technology instead of buttons.
In the late 1990s a few quiz machines/SWPs offered £40 jackpots. Although many new quiz machines during this period actually offered lower jackpot prizes such as £5, and had gameplays and payout structures that seemed designed to frustrate professional players. This approach however seemed to make the games less interesting for all players. In 2000 the quiz machine market did find new life however with the arrival of the highly popular Who Wants To Be A Millionaire quiz machine.
2. Professional Quiz Machine Players
The arrival on the scene in 1985 of SWP/quiz machines quickly led to the existence of a cohort of professional and semi-professional players. These were people who became highly skilled on particular games being able learn and memorise nearly entire questions sets for a particular machine. They could then make substantial incomes from touring many different quiz machine locations and extracting money from the particular types of machine in which they were skilled.
Over the years the size of quiz machine question sets has steadily increased, with the extensive use of "spoiler" questions to make large multiple wins difficult or impossible. Since the mid-1990s gameplay formats have also become a lot less "Pro" friendly. Today it is still possible for very skilled players to make worthwhile money playing SWPs but it is much harder than in the past.
3. The Quiz Machine/SWP Today
A fundamental change occurred in the nature of SWPs in the early 2000s. Single games in stand-alone cabinets were discontinued and replaced by multi-game terminals. Some of these can run a choice of up to 25-30 different games on the same machine. Some are also able to provide services other than gaming. These units can be managed and updated remotely through an ISDN or ADSL network connection.
Leading multigame terminals and their manufacturers at present are:
•itbox made by Maygay Ltd and originally used exclusively by Leisure Link, all machines are now owned by GamesTec.
•Paragon made by Games Warehouse
•FatBox Slim made by Fat Spanner
•Ind:e and Indego made by GamesMedia/Channel1
•Gamesnet made by GamesTec
Today most SWP/quiz machine games offer a nominal £20 jackpot for 50p play and a few offer £40 for £1 play. But on present day games the payout is carefully controlled and manipulated by the software. Payout levels are set at lower levels than previously.
4. Legal grey areas
An SWP machine must offer the chance to win the jackpot on every game, however the level of skill involved to do that is set so high as to be virtually impossible. Manufacturers have, at times, set the skill level so high that it is physically impossible to achieve this. Because there is no governing body for skill games, the only time this is brought into question is when the gaming authorities are alerted and take court action to prove or disprove that this is the case.In practise, this is very rare as the gaming authorities have no jurisdiction over skill machines and the only way for a prosecution to succeed is to prove that the game in question breaks the law in some way.
This can be done by proving that the machine differs to the legal definition of a skill machine which says that a player must be allowed to win prizes by skill alone. If there is an element of luck in the game it is automatically classed as a game of chance and is legally bound by the gambling commission legislation.
Many manufacturers push this boundary to the limit and sometimes into the grey area of legal definitions beyond.
The stake/prize level of a skill machine is also a grey area, as there is no legal limit on either, although most manufacturers abide by a gentleman's agreement with BACTA (a trade organisation) to limit both amounts to levels that are unlikely to attract the attention of legislators. Skill machines can legally be sited anywhere and played by anyone of any age, although there seems to be a lot of confusion about this, with some people assuming age limits and site restrictions must exist because of the similarity between these machines and AWP machines (fruit machines).
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Barry Trotter
- Senior Member
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:43 pm
I would certainly agree with that. I wrote the original article on Wikipediacp999 wrote:I don't actually know the legal position, but I certainly wouldn't be relying on Wikipedia for a definitive answer.
(the above post is copied from the Wikipedia page on quiz machines)
Although section 4 has been added by someone else.The original piece also had links to the Morning Advertiser articles about cool and Brewis, and I also cited "How to develop a perfect memory" by Dominic O'Brien which as far as I am aware is the only book that discusses playing quiz machines professionally. But these links have long since been removed.
You soon get bored with contributing to Wikipedia when people start butchering stuff that you have written.
no age limit on awp however they must have all poker/blackjack games removed by april 2010,due to new licensing laws..extract of letter below
Skill with Prizes machines
As you are aware, the Gambling Commission (the Commission) has been reviewing recent developments with respect to skill with prizes machines (SWPs) in order to ascertain whether or not some games described as SWPs are in fact gaming machines as defined in the Gambling Act 2005 (the Act). This is in line with our commitment in my letter to you of 17 November 2007 to keep the issue under consideration in the light of developments.
I am writing now to let you know that the Commission is of the view that ‘skill games’ which are designed to look like recognised games of chance (such as roulette or bingo) are being presented as involving an element of chance and are therefore games of chance according to section 6 (2)(a)(iii) of the Act.
Such machines are subject to all the regulations and controls which apply to gaming machines, for example in relation to supply, location, numbers, stakes and prizes and technical standards. In this respect, we believe at least some machines are being illegally sited and operated. We are contacting the manufacturers of such machines.
In addition, and in the light of what BACTA has told us, the Commission has also developed grounds for concern regarding the compensation or control mechanism used in some types of machines. In particular whether in reality the compensation or control mechanism operates in such a way that it introduces an element of chance into the way the game is played, at least on some occasions. If so, the machines are gaming machines as defined by section 6(2)(a)(i) of the Act.
Skill with Prizes machines
As you are aware, the Gambling Commission (the Commission) has been reviewing recent developments with respect to skill with prizes machines (SWPs) in order to ascertain whether or not some games described as SWPs are in fact gaming machines as defined in the Gambling Act 2005 (the Act). This is in line with our commitment in my letter to you of 17 November 2007 to keep the issue under consideration in the light of developments.
I am writing now to let you know that the Commission is of the view that ‘skill games’ which are designed to look like recognised games of chance (such as roulette or bingo) are being presented as involving an element of chance and are therefore games of chance according to section 6 (2)(a)(iii) of the Act.
Such machines are subject to all the regulations and controls which apply to gaming machines, for example in relation to supply, location, numbers, stakes and prizes and technical standards. In this respect, we believe at least some machines are being illegally sited and operated. We are contacting the manufacturers of such machines.
In addition, and in the light of what BACTA has told us, the Commission has also developed grounds for concern regarding the compensation or control mechanism used in some types of machines. In particular whether in reality the compensation or control mechanism operates in such a way that it introduces an element of chance into the way the game is played, at least on some occasions. If so, the machines are gaming machines as defined by section 6(2)(a)(i) of the Act.