Good luck. No strategy will make you a profit from playing roulette though.Firefox wrote: I stopped playing these a year or so ago anyway.Had my fair share of wins and losses, My betting structure was relatively sound and the next time i visit a Casino I may put it into practise in a "live" environment.
FOBT - why its' not like _casino roulette
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Guest
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Guest
biggest bets ive had win were- £5 on zero, £3 on 7+£20 on red, £100 on red+£100 on even(came in red even). Ive had many wins with a £1 or 2 on a number. I definetly prefer the physical wheels in arcades, if you see the ball bouncing out of a number and into another one you bet on it, it will normally come in on the next 3 spins. Also do not attempt the £1 on red, double if lose and so on as ive been stung on this many times.
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Guest
hi every one, this is my first post and i dont wanna get people angry but there never take the fobts out of lbos as they now make more money on them per day than the racing and awp could make in 3 or 4, fobt is the way this trade is going, it wont be long till you see fruits going the same way.
as for the random number generator this is a fully random machine connected to a server that the host cashier pc in lbo will get sent via the net, then its placed on to your terminal via the network, if all 4 terminals were to bet at the same time( to the millisecond) you would get the same number, as for a % on them they work more on if one m/c gives the others on the network will be taking as you dont play the same numbers as the guy next to you.
there is only one way to make quick money on a fobt, but it dont last for long
as for the random number generator this is a fully random machine connected to a server that the host cashier pc in lbo will get sent via the net, then its placed on to your terminal via the network, if all 4 terminals were to bet at the same time( to the millisecond) you would get the same number, as for a % on them they work more on if one m/c gives the others on the network will be taking as you dont play the same numbers as the guy next to you.
there is only one way to make quick money on a fobt, but it dont last for long
Please elaborate and explain, I am also curious where your info comes from?cosmo wrote:
as for the random number generator this is a fully random machine connected to a server that the host cashier pc in lbo will get sent via the net, then its placed on to your terminal via the network, if all 4 terminals were to bet at the same time( to the millisecond) you would get the same number, as for a % on them they work more on if one m/c gives the others on the network will be taking as you dont play the same numbers as the guy next to you.
Thanks Mate.
Sorry to dig this up again 
Had a look through again (a good read too), and after a few days gambling being surrounded, watching and a dabble playing FOBTs i can't agree that they are random.
There are too many times i see spread bets covering say 34/37 numbers only for the other 3 to come in. Or spread bets coming in only for the number to be the square with the least coverage, meaning a lower payout.
I also sharked someone who'd just lost £120 in my thought that they payout to a %, and lo and behold won £24 for £6 in. (£5 red, and £1 spread onto 5 numbers)
Now, i'd say i'm a fairly decent gambler with some nous, control and discipline. I'm too cynical to get hooked on these, they just look like a waste to me.
Anyone want to add to/counter my arguments?
Matt
Had a look through again (a good read too), and after a few days gambling being surrounded, watching and a dabble playing FOBTs i can't agree that they are random.
There are too many times i see spread bets covering say 34/37 numbers only for the other 3 to come in. Or spread bets coming in only for the number to be the square with the least coverage, meaning a lower payout.
I also sharked someone who'd just lost £120 in my thought that they payout to a %, and lo and behold won £24 for £6 in. (£5 red, and £1 spread onto 5 numbers)
Now, i'd say i'm a fairly decent gambler with some nous, control and discipline. I'm too cynical to get hooked on these, they just look like a waste to me.
Anyone want to add to/counter my arguments?
Matt
"Sixty percent of the time, it works, every time!"
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Terry Tibbs
- Senior Member
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:02 am
He's right. Roulette is designed to favor the house. No strategy can beat this except win short term then boltamullk wrote:Good luck. No strategy will make you a profit from playing roulette though.Firefox wrote: I stopped playing these a year or so ago anyway.Had my fair share of wins and losses, My betting structure was relatively sound and the next time i visit a Casino I may put it into practise in a "live" environment.
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Cardinal Sin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4166
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
I'll have a go! (even if I am just rehashing the arguments written previously)...Mattb wrote:Sorry to dig this up again
Had a look through again (a good read too), and after a few days gambling being surrounded, watching and a dabble playing FOBTs i can't agree that they are random.
There are too many times i see spread bets covering say 34/37 numbers only for the other 3 to come in. Or spread bets coming in only for the number to be the square with the least coverage, meaning a lower payout.
I also sharked someone who'd just lost £120 in my thought that they payout to a %, and lo and behold won £24 for £6 in. (£5 red, and £1 spread onto 5 numbers)
Now, i'd say i'm a fairly decent gambler with some nous, control and discipline. I'm too cynical to get hooked on these, they just look like a waste to me.
Anyone want to add to/counter my arguments?
Matt
34 out of 37 numbers means you have a 92% chance of winning, or an 8% chance of losing. You might have seen it quite a lot, but what you will have seen even more is all the countless other times when he has hit one of the many numbers he's covered, probably netting him next-to-nothing profit. You're just more likely to remember the occasions where someone else got bumped, or in your situation, where you hit the 5/37 chance.
The most cogent argument I've heard is WHY would the FOBT makers / bookies risk their reputations and livelihoods on fixing a machine that is billed as being random? Roulette is a guranteed money-maker. There might be the odd day where someone wins big and the machine is down overall, but in the long-run, they will make money. Roulette has been tried and tested in casinos in the last century - when was the last time you heard of a casino going out of business after somebody cleared them out at roulette?
Do Casinos fix the roulette wheels to prevent people from winning? Some of the more talented and experienced croupiers can probably pinpoint where they want to land, in which case you could argue that the casinos are more fixed than the machines.
So why are FOBTs generally perceived to be fixed, yet roulette wheels in casinos are seen to be random? One reason could be that people assume that because there is a computer controlling the wheel, then there must be some level of fixing going on... I would say it's the same with fruit machines... would people "trust" a conventional fruit machine more than a video fruit machine?
These FOBTs have been out for a few years now. Surely if they were rigged, then somebody somewhere would have either blown the whistle on them, or tried to investigate further themselves. As it is, the only "evidence" that they are fixed has been people recounting what they have seen in the bookies. And whilst people are likely to post here about the 1 in a 1,000 chance they've seen that proves that it is fixed, they're hardly like to post about the 999 other times when nothing "out of the ordinary" has occurred.
Thanks for that rich, appreciate the time you've put in there.
RE AWPs....i think many people (myself included) will trust an AWP more than a video generated one. At least you have a certain degree of control with an AWP than a 'random' S16. I can regularly win on AWPs, yet i won't play these S16's for fear of no control of the outcome.
About the cogency argument on reputations, you could counter by saying that the industry is bent as a nine bob note. Of course they'll do anything which can make them as much as possible.
The other thing about seeing 'fixed' things on these.....i've watched so many spins run through these, and i'm still coming to the conclusion that its rigged. The request number thing gets me too....i reckon in that time it calculates what the bet has been, and a good number to pick which will pay less than the stake the majority of the time.
Even the online players association, after reviewing the laws surrounding FOBTs, come to this conclusion:
'Settlement of the test-case means that the question whether FOBTs constitute lawful betting or unlawful gaming machines remains undetermined (at least by the courts). Whilst the settlement of the case and development of the Code of Practice has been welcomed by LBO operators, other sectors of the gambling industry (such as casino and amusement arcade operators) have been considerably less enthusiastic in their response.'
Lawful or unlawful? Like i said.....bent as a nine bob note!
These third party indepedent adjudicators are probably bribed to hell to give a favourable report too. I personally feel a full on review of these needs to be done. Not until a conclusive report comes out showing they are above board and 100% random will i accept them as fair.
I know you are a knowledgable chap rich, what's your stance though? I can't recall reading what your thoughts are on these.
Can you tell i'm not at all a cynic? :P
Matt
RE AWPs....i think many people (myself included) will trust an AWP more than a video generated one. At least you have a certain degree of control with an AWP than a 'random' S16. I can regularly win on AWPs, yet i won't play these S16's for fear of no control of the outcome.
About the cogency argument on reputations, you could counter by saying that the industry is bent as a nine bob note. Of course they'll do anything which can make them as much as possible.
The other thing about seeing 'fixed' things on these.....i've watched so many spins run through these, and i'm still coming to the conclusion that its rigged. The request number thing gets me too....i reckon in that time it calculates what the bet has been, and a good number to pick which will pay less than the stake the majority of the time.
Even the online players association, after reviewing the laws surrounding FOBTs, come to this conclusion:
'Settlement of the test-case means that the question whether FOBTs constitute lawful betting or unlawful gaming machines remains undetermined (at least by the courts). Whilst the settlement of the case and development of the Code of Practice has been welcomed by LBO operators, other sectors of the gambling industry (such as casino and amusement arcade operators) have been considerably less enthusiastic in their response.'
Lawful or unlawful? Like i said.....bent as a nine bob note!
These third party indepedent adjudicators are probably bribed to hell to give a favourable report too. I personally feel a full on review of these needs to be done. Not until a conclusive report comes out showing they are above board and 100% random will i accept them as fair.
I know you are a knowledgable chap rich, what's your stance though? I can't recall reading what your thoughts are on these.
Can you tell i'm not at all a cynic?
:P Matt
"Sixty percent of the time, it works, every time!"
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Cardinal Sin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4166
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
That's a very good point about fruit machine manufacturers. I played machines for about 10 years, so you get to realise some of the sly underhand tricks they use.... not least employing people with psychology degrees who specialise in the psychology of gambling. Now I wonder if that's to help people with gambling problems, or whether it is to exploit them?
I reckon the major bookmakers would be a bit more "above board". Surely they've got a lot to lose by getting involved in illegal practices?
Regarding the video fruit machines, I wasn't actually talking about s16, more the new generation of video fruit machines I've seen in pubs a couple of times (Monopoly is the only one I played... not surprinsingly, it wasn't very good).
I don't have any "insider" knowledge. I've not really played or watched many FOBTs, especially recently. I've witnessed quite a bit of roulette in casinos, and watched some pretty unlikely events occurring, and see no reason why this shouldn't occur without rigging on FOBTs. However, I would appreciate other folk's opinions..
Why don't we all chip in and buy one of these terminals for ourselves, then some of the more technically-minded amongst can get in about it and we can ascertain once and for all how random they really are?
I reckon the major bookmakers would be a bit more "above board". Surely they've got a lot to lose by getting involved in illegal practices?
Regarding the video fruit machines, I wasn't actually talking about s16, more the new generation of video fruit machines I've seen in pubs a couple of times (Monopoly is the only one I played... not surprinsingly, it wasn't very good).
I don't have any "insider" knowledge. I've not really played or watched many FOBTs, especially recently. I've witnessed quite a bit of roulette in casinos, and watched some pretty unlikely events occurring, and see no reason why this shouldn't occur without rigging on FOBTs. However, I would appreciate other folk's opinions..
Why don't we all chip in and buy one of these terminals for ourselves, then some of the more technically-minded amongst can get in about it and we can ascertain once and for all how random they really are?
ladbrokes roulette
Found this on hilton groups web site; http://213.131.169.243/main.asp?page=89
Cash Quest
Fixed odds betting terminals
Founded
Objective
Background
Brand Definition
The Future?
Founded
The first Cash Quest Fixed-Odds Betting Terminals were installed in November 2001. There are now approximately 6,400 FOBTs across the Ladbrokes estate.
Objective
To innovate and bring state-of-the-art technology to the high street betting shop and to offer a greater range of fixed-odds products to our customers.
Brand Definition
Cash Quest is very popular with our customers because they can enjoy a wide range of betting opportunities on demand on the one machine. Also, unlike with conventional slots, the chance of winning is not affected if the previous customer has won a large amount of money.
The Future?
A Code of Conduct between bookmakers, the government and the Gaming Board was agreed in November 2003, which requires that there are no more than 4 FOBTs per betting shop, and limits the stake to £100 and the maxim
Cash Quest
Fixed odds betting terminals
Founded
Objective
Background
Brand Definition
The Future?
Founded
The first Cash Quest Fixed-Odds Betting Terminals were installed in November 2001. There are now approximately 6,400 FOBTs across the Ladbrokes estate.
Objective
To innovate and bring state-of-the-art technology to the high street betting shop and to offer a greater range of fixed-odds products to our customers.
Brand Definition
Cash Quest is very popular with our customers because they can enjoy a wide range of betting opportunities on demand on the one machine. Also, unlike with conventional slots, the chance of winning is not affected if the previous customer has won a large amount of money.
The Future?
A Code of Conduct between bookmakers, the government and the Gaming Board was agreed in November 2003, which requires that there are no more than 4 FOBTs per betting shop, and limits the stake to £100 and the maxim
Mmm beer drink of the gods
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standardliege
- Junior Member
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:04 am
i have been playing fobts for about 2 years now and i wouldnt mind discussing a few things with anyone. when i first started i used to start a week with £250 and visit the bookies around 15 times a day. my strategy was always the same. I would base everything on the previous numbers. I know some people would say its daft cos it makes no difference but here me out.
I would target machines which had not churned out any of the following numbers. (i.e my favourite numbers)
0,8,10,11,13,17,20,22,24,26,28,29,32....(10,11,17,20,29 had more chips placed than others)
The money i would win would vary between £20 and £150 per visit. Most commonly about £45.
The idea is, if you play the machines alot, you start to see trends and you can get a feel for the machines.
A few obvious ones are the fact that you definately see more runs of colour than you do in a casino. Also they tend to be longer.
Knowing what number is coming in before the wheel has spun is commonplace now in bookies i imagine, depending on which way the zero is pointing etc...but knowing that 10,13,22,30and35repeat more than the other numbers is something you start seeing over time.
Anyway, i had a run of about 3weeks of winning decent amounts, but also spending the money cos that guarantees you will still be a winner if you lose it all. sort of.
What would normally happen is if i went on a machine without these numbers in the previous, one of mine would land within 7 spins. Sometimes i would slowly build my bets from £10 spread upto £75 if need be..(thats when you start sweating).
Sometimes i would bet big on the first couple of spins and a good number like 17 or 29 would land. Either way it generally worked out well.
There is also not much talk in this chatroom about covering both color with a pound to get spins out he way..(anyone who plays alot will know zero doesn't land enough for you to be concerned about losing your £2 stake).
Going back to the point...i probably won about £4500 in the 3 weeks but i spent around £2000 on random stuff so i generally played with a couple of grand buffer. Anyway as im sure youve been waiting to here the downfall, it came like a kick i the bollocks.
I hit the machine around 11am thinking its a good time to go(it normally was) and i started my usual antics. Straight away i remember choosing the machine cos it had 10 red numbers in the previous and not even 32 was there. I started playing and after about 20 spins not ONE of my numbers had come. At this stage if i knew what i know now i would not have got passed ten but i was still a sort of novice to the bizarre ways of the machines. Any way like a fool i carried on and it pretty much churned out every number twice over and not one of mine until i got down to £35 quid, which by that time my bets were upto a 100 a spin and it was pretty much useless.
Since those events 2 years ago i have had time off them and gone back and only until recently i have sort of quit them.(i had a bad run). I could start again it depends on circumstances but i think only people who are used to them and are prepared to put the boat out to beat it should really play them,cos they can be pretty skanky to be fair.
If anyone is thinking how can he possibly think you can pretty much make a living out of them for months at a time please understand this....I used to see this guy in the bookies nearly everyday and know word of a lie i rarely saw less than £4000 in the machine balance and yes i know it was mainly winnings cos the bookies staff used to always talk about how he skints them out sometimes. Unfortunately for me i never made friends with him he was a bit wierd as are all clever bastards i seem to meet. i spoke to him a few times, took advice occasionally and generally won when he interfeard. He played completly different to me so it was hard to get a bond going. He used to say im sure its gonna be a even high red...and then 30 would land or 32 which used to startle me to be quite honest. Anyway i dont know where he goes now so ill never have the knowledge he had but i know enough to get by.
I wont bore you all anymore so ill wrap this up with a couple of final thoughts.
The ways i play nowadays are quite different to how i used to. if i play i play alot more pound on both color and i bide my time more waiting or sensing when numbers are likely to land. I would say it is better to play the way the table is going as opposed to having a set plan. Look out for streaks especially color ones they can come in twenties. If you play alot you will feel when the machine is on a skank and just accept you have lost a bit and piss off. Go elsewhere or go and have some lunch. Remember numbers that repeat alot and look out for when the machine starts churning out neighbours all the time...you can latch on to things like that. i suppose the worst times are when the machine is being almost too random cos you have nothing to compare to or latch on to. in these cases change machines or take a break...In case anyone wants to know i am around evens over the two years which aint bad when you think i have had some whopping losses.(biggest was £4400 in an afternoon).(biggest win was £3100 in one session)
I would like to here other peoples opinions on the roulette machines cos as you can probably tell, i could talk about them allday.
You cant explain to the average non gambler what its like to have a run at gambling, but people here im sure know what im talking about. The problem is what you become when you have a long losing streak and thats always the problem.
I would target machines which had not churned out any of the following numbers. (i.e my favourite numbers)
0,8,10,11,13,17,20,22,24,26,28,29,32....(10,11,17,20,29 had more chips placed than others)
The money i would win would vary between £20 and £150 per visit. Most commonly about £45.
The idea is, if you play the machines alot, you start to see trends and you can get a feel for the machines.
A few obvious ones are the fact that you definately see more runs of colour than you do in a casino. Also they tend to be longer.
Knowing what number is coming in before the wheel has spun is commonplace now in bookies i imagine, depending on which way the zero is pointing etc...but knowing that 10,13,22,30and35repeat more than the other numbers is something you start seeing over time.
Anyway, i had a run of about 3weeks of winning decent amounts, but also spending the money cos that guarantees you will still be a winner if you lose it all. sort of.
What would normally happen is if i went on a machine without these numbers in the previous, one of mine would land within 7 spins. Sometimes i would slowly build my bets from £10 spread upto £75 if need be..(thats when you start sweating).
Sometimes i would bet big on the first couple of spins and a good number like 17 or 29 would land. Either way it generally worked out well.
There is also not much talk in this chatroom about covering both color with a pound to get spins out he way..(anyone who plays alot will know zero doesn't land enough for you to be concerned about losing your £2 stake).
Going back to the point...i probably won about £4500 in the 3 weeks but i spent around £2000 on random stuff so i generally played with a couple of grand buffer. Anyway as im sure youve been waiting to here the downfall, it came like a kick i the bollocks.
I hit the machine around 11am thinking its a good time to go(it normally was) and i started my usual antics. Straight away i remember choosing the machine cos it had 10 red numbers in the previous and not even 32 was there. I started playing and after about 20 spins not ONE of my numbers had come. At this stage if i knew what i know now i would not have got passed ten but i was still a sort of novice to the bizarre ways of the machines. Any way like a fool i carried on and it pretty much churned out every number twice over and not one of mine until i got down to £35 quid, which by that time my bets were upto a 100 a spin and it was pretty much useless.
Since those events 2 years ago i have had time off them and gone back and only until recently i have sort of quit them.(i had a bad run). I could start again it depends on circumstances but i think only people who are used to them and are prepared to put the boat out to beat it should really play them,cos they can be pretty skanky to be fair.
If anyone is thinking how can he possibly think you can pretty much make a living out of them for months at a time please understand this....I used to see this guy in the bookies nearly everyday and know word of a lie i rarely saw less than £4000 in the machine balance and yes i know it was mainly winnings cos the bookies staff used to always talk about how he skints them out sometimes. Unfortunately for me i never made friends with him he was a bit wierd as are all clever bastards i seem to meet. i spoke to him a few times, took advice occasionally and generally won when he interfeard. He played completly different to me so it was hard to get a bond going. He used to say im sure its gonna be a even high red...and then 30 would land or 32 which used to startle me to be quite honest. Anyway i dont know where he goes now so ill never have the knowledge he had but i know enough to get by.
I wont bore you all anymore so ill wrap this up with a couple of final thoughts.
The ways i play nowadays are quite different to how i used to. if i play i play alot more pound on both color and i bide my time more waiting or sensing when numbers are likely to land. I would say it is better to play the way the table is going as opposed to having a set plan. Look out for streaks especially color ones they can come in twenties. If you play alot you will feel when the machine is on a skank and just accept you have lost a bit and piss off. Go elsewhere or go and have some lunch. Remember numbers that repeat alot and look out for when the machine starts churning out neighbours all the time...you can latch on to things like that. i suppose the worst times are when the machine is being almost too random cos you have nothing to compare to or latch on to. in these cases change machines or take a break...In case anyone wants to know i am around evens over the two years which aint bad when you think i have had some whopping losses.(biggest was £4400 in an afternoon).(biggest win was £3100 in one session)
I would like to here other peoples opinions on the roulette machines cos as you can probably tell, i could talk about them allday.
You cant explain to the average non gambler what its like to have a run at gambling, but people here im sure know what im talking about. The problem is what you become when you have a long losing streak and thats always the problem.
I am not delusional but now play FOBTS full time using only Ladbrokes shops. My play is based on repeats of certain numbers and the neighbours and groups of numbers. I play for small stakes and walk out when I have lost or won £100. I win £100 90% of the time. I believe that the random number generator produces patterns of numbers and if you follow this patterns you can win, it really does work. I often play these machines shaking my head as I keep expecting to lose time after time, but the patterns just keep ocurring and I keep winning. I am the most cynical person I know and If I was reading this post without my experiences I would think that it was a load of nonsense by a dreamer addict.
Jerry