IMO current machines are really dull, there's very very little player skill involved; and before you beginners get too interested this means machines are going to be dead all the time so there's NO point in you getting involved. Here's my round up:
Extreme: All the same clones, everyone knows setups etc. which causes them to be permanently near dead so you make £1-10, if your lucky you get the cycle, but there's no skill really here. Personally I find trekking round playing extreme after extreme, EXTREMELY DULL. ( pardon the pun )
Red gamings are all the same, once youve done number runner once you've done it 1000 times, all very predictable stuff, reds there, no reds not there.... etc.etc. plow in your money and hope it doesnt cost too much from the almost inevitable refill, much more a lottery in essence, no skill here.
Maygay: ie. King ker Clones.. .all the same dross, no skill here, and dont tell me skillcash, oh wow you can blag £10, when it probably cost £10 to get it anyway... NOT WORTH IT
Mazooma: Mostly shit but at least ziggy etc. involves the highest amount of skill for any machine out at the mo, this is one exception.
Crests: Hardly any around, newer ones pretty crap, cock a doodle dough, etc. loads of gimme gimme gimme clones all rubbish... wobbler is good granted but not that much skill really, every fucker knows superhold. Best of a bad bunch perhaps with some of their machines. Still very limited skill needed here.
Global: Too random- can't play em.
BFM: Shite, no skill atall.
Come on manufacturors make something interesting for once PLEASE, no more clones... lets bring some skill back to playing!
Boring machines
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Cardinal Sin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4166
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
And herein lies the problem.
Adding more skill to games means the games are more easily manipulated. Furthermore, any machines which have large skill elements will attract players such as yourself. With the proliferation of "internet players", anyone worth their salt will be able to achieve the maximum wins from these skill features, thus rendering the machine stone-dead. Only hardened addicts play dead machines, therefore the machine doesn't take in much money. Manufacturers quite understandly prefer "random" machines, which are much harder to read and manipulate. They might be less fun, but they make more money for the makers, and represent better value for money than machines which can be practically emptied.
True, in days of yore, you had machines with plenty o skill involved, but these were in the days of reduced jackpots. Taking a jackpot from a skill feature didn't kill the machine like it would nowadays. Furthermore, because there was no network of players (like fruitchat), even if a machine could be emptied, it was less likely to be chipped / taken away, because the scale of the problem wasn't so widespread .
So what I'm trying to say is that players have been come victims of their own success. The more players there are (and there are a helluva lot), the less pie there is to share.
So is there a solution? If it were up to me, I would bring back the days of £10-£15 jackpot machines. They were so many classics. However, I'm in no doubt that if the pubs and arcades were filled with the old favourites, they'd all be completely dead and we'd still be moaning.
Adding more skill to games means the games are more easily manipulated. Furthermore, any machines which have large skill elements will attract players such as yourself. With the proliferation of "internet players", anyone worth their salt will be able to achieve the maximum wins from these skill features, thus rendering the machine stone-dead. Only hardened addicts play dead machines, therefore the machine doesn't take in much money. Manufacturers quite understandly prefer "random" machines, which are much harder to read and manipulate. They might be less fun, but they make more money for the makers, and represent better value for money than machines which can be practically emptied.
True, in days of yore, you had machines with plenty o skill involved, but these were in the days of reduced jackpots. Taking a jackpot from a skill feature didn't kill the machine like it would nowadays. Furthermore, because there was no network of players (like fruitchat), even if a machine could be emptied, it was less likely to be chipped / taken away, because the scale of the problem wasn't so widespread .
So what I'm trying to say is that players have been come victims of their own success. The more players there are (and there are a helluva lot), the less pie there is to share.
So is there a solution? If it were up to me, I would bring back the days of £10-£15 jackpot machines. They were so many classics. However, I'm in no doubt that if the pubs and arcades were filled with the old favourites, they'd all be completely dead and we'd still be moaning.
extremes up there were pretty dead when I was there matt!! Dunno where you mean! The couple in York I knew ( bling and queen in a pub with stack attack ) was often dead, the one in the bowl often dead and the one with a wobbler next to it ( a while back this is!! ) was dead usually,along with a dead most daunting downstairs!!! Oh and the round the bend in the pub where its near the back, and notey disconnected was usually dead also!!!!
leeds ones were even more dead!!!!
leeds ones were even more dead!!!!
crest's involve skill if you ask me. Not darts, but stuff like raiders, TAW, VIU + clones, its all about prising it in early on features, SH,NW and I have never seen a non-player around here prise in a MS on space raiders !
on these machines unless its a force it alls about rell knowledge and when to switch from red to blue etc, theres an element of skill in that if you ask me.
on these machines unless its a force it alls about rell knowledge and when to switch from red to blue etc, theres an element of skill in that if you ask me.
Hit the nail on the head there CR. The more skill features/games there are the more dead they will become because there are more people able to hit them. If lower JP's were brought back in then that would part solve the problem, but can you imaging playing a Casino 5 Liner or Hot Shot nowerdays, they would be deader than the deadest of Extremes as every man and his dog would be playing for the Roll with it's etc.Cardinal Richelieu wrote:And herein lies the problem.
Adding more skill to games means the games are more easily manipulated. Furthermore, any machines which have large skill elements will attract players such as yourself. With the proliferation of "internet players", anyone worth their salt will be able to achieve the maximum wins from these skill features, thus rendering the machine stone-dead. Only hardened addicts play dead machines, therefore the machine doesn't take in much money. Manufacturers quite understandly prefer "random" machines, which are much harder to read and manipulate. They might be less fun, but they make more money for the makers, and represent better value for money than machines which can be practically emptied.
True, in days of yore, you had machines with plenty o skill involved, but these were in the days of reduced jackpots. Taking a jackpot from a skill feature didn't kill the machine like it would nowadays. Furthermore, because there was no network of players (like fruitchat), even if a machine could be emptied, it was less likely to be chipped / taken away, because the scale of the problem wasn't so widespread .
So what I'm trying to say is that players have been come victims of their own success. The more players there are (and there are a helluva lot), the less pie there is to share.
So is there a solution? If it were up to me, I would bring back the days of £10-£15 jackpot machines. They were so many classics. However, I'm in no doubt that if the pubs and arcades were filled with the old favourites, they'd all be completely dead and we'd still be moaning.
These things might be boring to play but if you make a profit who cares. The days of Amusement With Prizes are long gone much to the disgust of us all. :x
Yeh I understand what your saying guys about skill, but I dont think that its altogether true. Alot of so called "players" would not be able to play skilled machines, especially those plague of damn kids burning everything and especially not when they first come out- at least then it sorts the men out from the boys....
Personally I think with red gamings being so obvious it makes for MORE players not less as people see how easy it is to get the big £75!
I think a good example is royal family, wasn't a trivial machine, but could be good money with skillfull play ( I'm not talking p1 here ), in areas where simpler things were stone, these were often alive - does this not disprove to some extent what you are saying ; I'd say this situation is quite common
And with skill machines - munters cant burn them so they would be dead, hence you know you can shark with the knowledge they'll be value when they leave
As for crest dunham, yes theres some skill, but they are rare, and as they are all clones of earlier machines, every man and his dog has learnt them!
Personally I think with red gamings being so obvious it makes for MORE players not less as people see how easy it is to get the big £75!
I think a good example is royal family, wasn't a trivial machine, but could be good money with skillfull play ( I'm not talking p1 here ), in areas where simpler things were stone, these were often alive - does this not disprove to some extent what you are saying ; I'd say this situation is quite common
And with skill machines - munters cant burn them so they would be dead, hence you know you can shark with the knowledge they'll be value when they leave
As for crest dunham, yes theres some skill, but they are rare, and as they are all clones of earlier machines, every man and his dog has learnt them!
Hehob wrote:extremes up there were pretty dead when I was there matt!! Dunno where you mean! The couple in York I knew ( bling and queen in a pub with stack attack ) was often dead, the one in the bowl often dead and the one with a wobbler next to it ( a while back this is!! ) was dead usually,along with a dead most daunting downstairs!!! Oh and the round the bend in the pub where its near the back, and notey disconnected was usually dead also!!!!
leeds ones were even more dead!!!!
Yes, york is pants. Everytime i've been there everything has been dead too. I mean back here in Cambridge 
"Sixty percent of the time, it works, every time!"
Agreed. And the 10/15 japes were so well programmed that they were NEVER more than 20 away from being able to afford a JP (Arcadia the exception lol). I used to play non numbering P1 arrows, If it came back within a tenner u make a fiver lol.Cardinal Richelieu wrote:And herein lies the problem.
Adding more skill to games means the games are more easily manipulated. Furthermore, any machines which have large skill elements will attract players such as yourself. With the proliferation of "internet players", anyone worth their salt will be able to achieve the maximum wins from these skill features, thus rendering the machine stone-dead. Only hardened addicts play dead machines, therefore the machine doesn't take in much money. Manufacturers quite understandly prefer "random" machines, which are much harder to read and manipulate. They might be less fun, but they make more money for the makers, and represent better value for money than machines which can be practically emptied.
True, in days of yore, you had machines with plenty o skill involved, but these were in the days of reduced jackpots. Taking a jackpot from a skill feature didn't kill the machine like it would nowadays. Furthermore, because there was no network of players (like fruitchat), even if a machine could be emptied, it was less likely to be chipped / taken away, because the scale of the problem wasn't so widespread .
So what I'm trying to say is that players have been come victims of their own success. The more players there are (and there are a helluva lot), the less pie there is to share.
So is there a solution? If it were up to me, I would bring back the days of £10-£15 jackpot machines. They were so many classics. However, I'm in no doubt that if the pubs and arcades were filled with the old favourites, they'd all be completely dead and we'd still be moaning.
Non of this streak and forcing nonsense. Just bang on percentage payout.
Funny you should say that MrRed, was in bowling alley some months back, there was an unchiped Lucky Strike in there. I'd already done it when some bloke came in, must of been at least 60 and went straight to LS and started playing for Hot Shot! Couldn't believe my eyes. Just shows how things spread like wildfire nowerdays.MrRed wrote:
Saw a guy with a zimmer and an eye patch the other day holding for the +4 bonus
actually, went to leeds twice, 1st time was a bit poor £50ish make, but the second time made almost £300, so you obviously can get lucky there - DNA was there both times in the flares ( I think ) club next to the station, the bar in the centre with machines up and down stairs ( reds ) was good money, so mostly reds really... the extreme's however were pretty dead even on that day!
ps... how many damn arcades do you have there.... and they're all SHITE!!! especially that one near the station, was comatose
ps... how many damn arcades do you have there.... and they're all SHITE!!! especially that one near the station, was comatose