Banned For Keybet

harry2 · Post by **harry2** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:51 am

They don't have all these people working on new roulette games to be paying 97.2%. Just imagine , even 0.5% difference could be tens of millions of pounds extra profits.

Surprised they haven't been pushing "American Roulette" with 0 and 00.

They don't even retUrn half the stake on even money chances when zero comes in.

harry2 · Post by **harry2** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:14 am

Ps ;Ruler, I'm at Ascot and it's pouring down. Racing probably cancelled, mate.

Noels Beard · Post by **Noels Beard** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:14 am

The average payout, in the help section of the game, is mathematically correct when the Pot is at £50. This is what they reset it to. So whilst it's underhand and shitty, it would strike me as difficult to claim it was unlawful. When you ask and pester as to why they have been reset, they will tell you that the hard disk needed to be replaced, thus compromising any local data.

Roll_With_It_Russ · Post by **Roll_With_It_Russ** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:08 pm

harry2 wrote:They don't have all these people working on new roulette games to be paying 97.2%. Just imagine , even 0.5% difference could be tens of millions of pounds extra profits.

Surprised they haven't been pushing "American Roulette" with 0 and 00.

They don't even retUrn half the stake on even money chances when zero comes in.

I think some terminals did have some double zero variation on, that was a while ago and it never got much play and think it was on a platform that is now not in use.

They do not do the en prision rule for outside bets because that would be unlawful on these machines, B2 games are not allowed the outcome of a previous game to affect the odds of a following game... so if they offered enprision and returned half stake, then that would mean the player is getting a "free chance" on the next game which is not allowed(that why its called un prision, the half stake stays on the table for the next spin, if you win the bet is paid and the wager is released, some casinos allowed you to take an enprision of the tables others don't - really depends on what dealer you have and whether they are paying attention or not some places also)

I still can't get my head round that lots of people play b2 games and yet fail to understand what it is they are playing.

ob · Post by ob » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:20 pm

I still don't agree rwrr, I know that random b2 games dont have to reach a percentage perfectly well but they must use a percentage calculation to add to the pot, which goes up in relation to a PERCENTAGE off your stake. Extrabet goes up 5p for a 5 pound bet I think for example might be 6p, if you betc £100 it goes up £1, thus 1% of stake is used to increase the pot. The extra position on the table increases the edge however by 2.7%, so the game is still 1.7% better off for the bookie in the long run. I fail to understand how this concept is not clear, the percentage of stake used to put the pot up is obvious surely. They are willing to give up 1% to a progressive pot over time and it is the expectation it will be won eventually, if the pots just a gimmick why not put it up by arbitrary amounts, that's what your line of thinking suggests.

A further point, once the maximum pot is reached a background reserve pot it doesn't display is built in the background, hence why reset values from maxed pots are different.

Roll_With_It_Russ · Post by **Roll_With_It_Russ** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:00 pm

ob wrote:I still don't agree rwrr, I know that random b2 games dont have to reach a percentage perfectly well but they must use a percentage calculation to add to the pot, which goes up in relation to a PERCENTAGE off your stake. Extrabet goes up 5p for a 5 pound bet I think for example might be 6p, if you betc £100 it goes up £1, thus 1% of stake is used to increase the pot. The extra position on the table increases the edge however by 2.7%, so the game is still 1.7% better off for the bookie in the long run. I fail to understand how this concept is not clear, the percentage of stake used to put the pot up is obvious surely. They are willing to give up 1% to a progressive pot over time and it is the expectation it will be won eventually, if the pots just a gimmick why not put it up by arbitrary amounts, that's what your line of thinking suggests.

A further point, once the maximum pot is reached a background reserve pot it doesn't display is built in the background, hence why reset values from maxed pots are different.

You are confusing what you think is right with what the technical standards in the gambling legislation states says the machine has to do... the only reason the payout % is displayed is to give the indication to the player the expectation of the game... at no point does the machine have to payout more or take less to compensate itself.

I may just be repeating myself but B2 games the odds of success is what you see, standard roulette is 1 in 37, the game in question keybet section is 1 in 38(as well as any other section result)... that is the players odds of winning... the machine pays out at 35/1 roulette and for the keybet section between 20x -50x or the POT, now when you press the start button the value of the POT is clear to see as well as all other possibles. The odds of winning are consistant, thats what the rules state regarding B2 games.

What the problem is you are thinking that the accumulated pot is some sort of save % payout, it is not, they are running the game at the odds displayed at all times, its a higher house edge game with a pot at varible values. What you see is the pot going up over time, but that does not mean it has saved it to payout, it has been contributed to as a possible payout, but each time you play the POT is clear to see along with the odds of winning - the visuals of the game.

As to the value of reset pots, well thats the choice of the operator, they could just start them as £500 and keep them at that all the time if they wanted to(ofcourse that would not be sensible on their part), however a reset value based upon contributions does not have to be displayed until there is a chance of winning that associated prize value. The game design may well choose to contribute funds to a pot, overspilling into a reserve pot, but thats not a requirement by the technical standards, its just what the operator does to make it a more attractive game than they need to. Its not a gimmick in the sense its what the operator chooses it to be, but it is a way of providing a higher house edge game overtime.

It does the operator no favours in resetting the keybet pot, if it was beneficial it would reset every day or some such, however when the terminal has an hardware upgrade or replacement the stored data is lost, ofcourse it would make sense for the operator to ensure that the POT values are recorded and set to the values the had reached... but they don't seem to bother everywhere.

ob · Post by ob » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:16 pm

Of course it does them a favour. If the pot was 500 then they reset it to 50, when it's won they have to payout 450 quid less!!!! They don't reset them every day as that would be taking the piss and people would get annoyed. Whatever the value of the pot is you have the same chance of winning it, thus for an individual playing the percentage return would be higher the higher the pot is.

If it were 500 all the time I'd be a millionaire albeit a VERY BORED one sat on those all day. I'm going to look into the figures they state for percentage anyhow so we can solve this argument.

Roll_With_It_Russ · Post by **Roll_With_It_Russ** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:33 pm

And your point is? the player could see the odds when they played, there is no part of the gambling legislation that states that pot still has to be there when they play tomorrow...

an individual could argue they didn't get the payout they expected if some one came in a won the pot while they nipped out for half an hour during a session, they return and the pot is at £50, they are then playing the same game and the odds are displayed there infront of them.

The whole arguement that they have to payout less is well void, because there is no requirement for them to honour the pot value, they only have to honour the pot value if a player plays with the pot value displayed when they play the machine. To payout £450 less is simply less compared to what they could make with an attractive pot value.

If you have issue with resets then you need to be getting on to the gambling commision to change the law, rather than the operators incompetance.

Plumy2k · Post by **Plumy2k** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:55 pm

One small point also, although the pot only goes up 6/7p per £5 spin, if u win the pot on say £380 it does not reset to £50, it may reset to £140 say. Meaning the reserve pot is building up at the same time. I.e. the 6/7p is actually more like 10p.

martdaman · Post by **martdaman** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:56 pm

Yeah i had a pot which was on something like 498 it got to 500. Not long after i got it out, pot reset to 380!

AMK · Post by **AMK** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:00 pm

There's 2 pots a pot and a reserve pot, the reserve pot just isn't visible. Think most of these type of games are setup the same way?

Plumy2k · Post by **Plumy2k** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:21 pm

Ye I got one on £497, couldn't believe my eyes. Went at £500 off about a ton. :-)

martdaman · Post by **martdaman** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:34 pm

Did anyone off here email Head Office?

fatbloke · Post by **fatbloke** » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:43 am

Keybet. had this argument i.e reset pots yesterday around South London over a magic overnight reset. Don`t agree with Russ, yes the odds are the same but the advantage to the player is obviously higher if the pot remains high and doesn't get swerved by the bookie.
Are there any games in the O2? Bored today gonna go check Hackney and Westham/O2/Stratford / North Greenwich way

JG · Post by JG » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:32 pm

There's a bowling alley in the O2 arena. It wasn't open last time I visited though.

Canning Town worth a look.