Banned For Keybet

feeder22 · Post by **feeder22** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:58 pm

This whole thread is shady as fook.

Things that have been mention here should have been covered in the couple of programmes we had the other month.

Roll_With_It_Russ · Post by **Roll_With_It_Russ** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:13 pm

darren wrote:I've heard of people being told they cant bet like that in ladbrokes but then customer services have said its fine and can continue, what annoys me is will hill are always resetting the pots. This would be illegal as then the game can't and won't make the advertised percentage.

no b2 game has to reach an advertised percentage, it has to off the odds it represents, so if you see a 50.00 pot on reset, that the game you are playing, if you see one on 433.21 then that is the game you are playing, whether you lose or win every spin and the game pays out over or under the house edge is not unlawful.

kong · Post by **kong** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:26 pm

If they are moaning about the obvious method for these just switch to a variation of it. You can cover the board in chips and make it look like you are playing roulette, without making too much difference to the overall expected outcome. It is a long term game after all, so you can ride the fluctuations, both good and bad. One example of how to do this is here:

http://www.fantafob.com/key-bet-roulette.html

Although the maths isn't as exact as they claim it still works.

Alternatively contact the Gambling Commission and make your complaint with them:

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/gh-contact_us.aspx

Or someone like the Racing Post would be interested to hear how they are treating their customers.

Personally, I think they are on thin ice with this. If you are playing by the rules of the game then they've got nothing to complain about, how you choose to make up the minimum fiver bet is your own business.

Ruler of The World · Post by **Ruler of The World** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:43 pm

I would laugh my arse off if someone told me to change my bet on a key bet, especially in a Ladbrokes.

7-10-2-7-LOSE · Post by **7-10-2-7-LOSE** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:39 pm

I'd be completely stunned if i was told i couldn't bet a certain way on a roulette game in a bookies. What a joke.

mr lugsy · Post by **mr lugsy** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:50 pm

i would just switch to a 20p stake slot and play it reeeaaaallly sloooooooooooooooowly.

Roll_With_It_Russ · Post by **Roll_With_It_Russ** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:04 pm

I prefer 25p blackjack across 4 hands, that way you can spend plenty of time pretending you dunno whether to hit or stick.

darren · Post by **darren** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:22 pm

Roll_With_It_Russ wrote:no b2 game has to reach an advertised percentage, it has to off the odds it represents, so if you see a 50.00 pot on reset, that the game you are playing, if you see one on 433.21 then that is the game you are playing, whether you lose or win every spin and the game pays out over or under the house edge is not unlawful.

Fair enough, I stand corrected then.

ob · Post by ob » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:15 pm

Roll_With_It_Russ wrote:no b2 game has to reach an advertised percentage, it has to off the odds it represents, so if you see a 50.00 pot on reset, that the game you are playing, if you see one on 433.21 then that is the game you are playing, whether you lose or win every spin and the game pays out over or under the house edge is not unlawful.

Im not sure you're right here, does the percentage given on the screen actually account for the increase in the pot every spin? If it is incorporated into the percentage stated, then reseting the game then is unfair, as all the retained percentage from adding to pots has then gone. However if the percentage is stated as a lowest possible percentage ie. if you were playing it with a reset pot, and the additions to the pot are just some "BONUS" they are doing, then in that case they can get away with reseting them.

A similar concept if your having trouble is, say Jackpot Party online games, they state 95%, but also say 3% off this to goes to add to progressives. Resetting the pots without people winning them is then unfair, as this 3% then just goes to the company, and the games actually pay 92%. Of course whether they actually did pay more or less than 92% long run on the games themselves is not unlawful as they are random games, in the same sense as roulette in your post.

ruthl3ss · Post by **ruthl3ss** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Of course its unlawful.
Your losing your "true" roulette odds by having the KB number there. So the 97.2% is broken.
The accumulated pot - lets say for example gains £50 a day for argument sake.
If this is reset everyday, then the pot never pays a true value and the "saving" is going back to the bookmakers.

These cunnies already turn over £1000`s anyways, its taking the piss.

Roll_With_It_Russ · Post by **Roll_With_It_Russ** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:45 pm

You are comfusing what the theorectical return to player is, based upon the house edge... and what actually happens during an individuals game.

When an individual plays the game the odds are displayed infront of them, whether the pot is reset or not... there is no law saying the pot has to start where it left off for each player, or that it can not be reset, or even set to the maximum.

Roll_With_It_Russ · Post by **Roll_With_It_Russ** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:48 pm

ruthl3ss wrote:Of course its unlawful.
Your losing your "true" roulette odds by having the KB number there. So the 97.2% is broken.
The accumulated pot - lets say for example gains £50 a day for argument sake.
If this is reset everyday, then the pot never pays a true value and the "saving" is going back to the bookmakers.

These cunnies already turn over £1000`s anyways, its taking the piss.

Yes but you are not playing roulette are you... the game is "ket bet roulette" the key bet section is clear to see and the player can see the odds displayed(which have to be the representation at the time which the game is played)

If the keybet pot was reset after the player pressed start then that would be unlawful, but just because the pot is reset the odds of getting the pot remain the same whether its £55.40 or £471.22.

The displayed theretical percentage has nothing to do with the value of the pot, this is only displayed to make aware to the player they are playing a negative expectation game.

Ruler of The World · Post by **Ruler of The World** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:23 pm

Look, its simple. When the Pot value is £500, the average value of 'Key' is £72.50 for £1 stake. Obviously in that respect you have an advantage, anything around £250 the average key value is still well over 36/1 of all other numbers. The less you can stake, the better so obviously £1 a spin ones or £2 a spin where you do 20p on 5 avenues then £1 for key are best. Despite ALL of this, every person who has played a few can tell you there is NO GUARANTEE that you will win, or even not lose a fortune - yes, even with no mental gambling through frustration. Therefore, I would laugh if a twat in the bookies told me I am CHEATING or SCAMMING the machine. You're still meant to LOSE on average £60 per hour until you hit the pot so, realistically, if you don't hit it within 8 hours you'll probably lose.

ob · Post by ob » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:21 am

It is an absolute joke that they claim you are SCAMMING/CHEATING them isn't it!

RWIR: Isnt the percentage stated as a Average Percentage Payout, and as such if it is incorporating a feed into a pot, the Average Long term payout will not be truthfull if the pot is reset; as the average percentage is thus reflected in the fact the pot is fed and then eventually won, if the pot was incremented then not paid then the AVERAGE long run percentage of the game (over Loads of players) would be Lower than Stated.

Roll_With_It_Russ · Post by **Roll_With_It_Russ** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:04 am

yes but the stated % does not have to be achieved, it just has to be the % possible... it is possible you could play until it is won, or you could play until it is not won and reset via software upgrade.

the example to use is blackjack, it advertises 99%, it does not have to payout 99% though, it will only return to 99% if the player plays optimum stratagy, if you bust every hand drawing regardless on 18,19,20 etc... it won't then start throwing in blackjack every hand to obtain 99%, the game owes nothing, only if you play it correctly will a player achieve 99%.

A payout % on an B2 game DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ACHIEVED EVER, it can pay out above or below, due to players good fortune or bad luck... B2 games only have to offer the odds displayed when you press the start button.

Pots that build up are not any part of saved % or somthing that must be paid out to make the game lawful, its just a higher house egde game than roulette by having the extra section.

The cumulative pot is just a lure to play, it might be offering a better prize than the odds displayed at times, but thats the design on the game... its 455/1 to hit the pot