New Beginning

[Real Pro gamer]

Has anyone on here seen somebody nick a charity box?

[Ruler of The World]

I haven't but I'm sure it happens.

About the war, what's done is done but I don't see how staying around will make things any better - they obviously resent our troops anyway and will never see it as us 'helping' - let's be totally honest here, we all know our government and USA's wouldn't have spent billions on this 'mission' just to 'do good' and seek no rewards! Surely no one on here is THAT naive?

The terrorists must love it now, knowing that the entire western world is basically skint and can't really afford to wage another war - imagine the governments of UK and USA trying to justify spending even more on 'anti-terror campaigns' when we're still paying for the waste of the last 2! People simply won't stand for it, having to fork out even more for what the vast majority believe 'is not our fight'.

Speaking of the future, what about UK peoples' futures? How many people won't be able to afford to send their kids to better schools or university due to having to fork out for these pointless wars and other government wastes of money through increased tax? Why has VAT gone up to 20% again???

[Noels Beard]

online haters, big deal... while i'm on it, help the heros, does that piss people off to the same degree as it does me?

Yes it pisses me off. Was in Wigan the other week, and they came round waving the flag. I refused to put a pound in, like I say these people know what they're signing up for. I would never sign up, because I know you might get killed! It might be different if we were genuinely under threat, but we're not. I believe the full time army is now at it lowest level since the Napoleonic wars. And again, coming back to the original point of this thread, does doing something out of naivety qualify you as a hero? Not in my book. Being in the army, where you are never allowed to make your own decisions about the moral implications of who you are going to kill, or what regime you may be promoting/bringing down, seems like an odd place to find a hero. People like Aung San Suu Kyi are heroes, (Burma). There are plenty of corrupt countries in the world, Israel is probably chief amongst them, so why aren't we bullying them into sorting their act out? Ironically, given how their country was created, they are widely regarded as one of the most racist nations. And their lack of religious tolerance is causing suffering in the whole of the West Bank. We should be sorting them out ! I like the fact that Obama won't kiss Israeli bum like previous US presidents though :-)

[trayhop123]

Having read all of this , , , can we just agree on a few points

1' no system of goverment will ever be perfect and without controversy , , , where theres money , theres greed and coruption

2' people botherd about spelling mistakes on a forum really need to stop whinging, , , , surely if the point and flow of the post is understood , then seriously who gives two fucks if its spelt right? , , , , , fruitchat isnt a job application form

3' as long as im making enough to put food in the bellys of my family, , , , and doing it without hurting other people , does it really matter what profession i chose

4' the income tax vs incresed slotters spending debate can reach no agreement

5' sometimes the man with the bus pass is the hapiest

[Ruler of The World]

I know you made all those basic spelling errors just to wind me up! Tray bon!

[Ruler of The World]

Yes it pisses me off. Was in Wigan the other week, and they came round waving the flag. I refused to put a pound in, like I say these people know what they're signing up for. I would never sign up, because I know you might get killed! It might be different if we were genuinely under threat, but we're not. I believe the full time army is now at it lowest level since the Napoleonic wars. And again, coming back to the original point of this thread, does doing something out of naivety qualify you as a hero? Not in my book. Being in the army, where you are never allowed to make your own decisions about the moral implications of who you are going to kill, or what regime you may be promoting/bringing down, seems like an odd place to find a hero. People like Aung San Suu Kyi are heroes, (Burma). There are plenty of corrupt countries in the world, Israel is probably chief amongst them, so why aren't we bullying them into sorting their act out? Ironically, given how their country was created, they are widely regarded as one of the most racist nations. And their lack of religious tolerance is causing suffering in the whole of the West Bank. We should be sorting them out ! I like the fact that Obama won't kiss Israeli bum like previous US presidents though :-)

Well said, I believe sorting Israel out is the key to stopping a huge amount of terrorism as its the biggest and longest running excuse ever! I genuinely detest terrorists but when you're calling the rightful residents of a nation (the Palestinians) terrorists for fighting back against their oppressors (the Israelis) on their own land, the world has truly gone barmy! If Germany was to invade England now and rename it Germrael and we fought back to rid our land of them, would that make us terrorists too? People have been seeing this injustice for decades, nothing is done - what are those people meant to do? They build walls around them, they say they won't build settlements on their land but then just do it anyway! If any set of people deserves some sympathy its the Palestinians.

[mr lugsy]

flipside is that it was originally jewish territory many moons ago, although it was only 'awarded' back to them after WW2

[Noels Beard]

Actually Lugsy, and I'm sorry to correct you here, but it was actually originally Semitic territory. This includes both the Jews and the Palestinians who they love to blow up.

[mr lugsy]

i doubt that you are sorry to correct me lol but point taken.

[Ruler of The World]

My dad is Palestinian, making me half that I guess. He was 6 years old when he and his family were turfed out of their houses and turned into refugees, they went to live in Jordan where most of his family still reside and is a company with a very large Palestinian population. I've only been there once, 30 years ago. We do still have family there, the Israelis have been utter cunts to them.

I hate to sound cold hearted towards my people (or my 1/2 people) but I was born and grew up in England, I don't really feel a tie, I've never seen an Israeli soldier hurting a member of my family and I've never been close to anyone who live there anyway. I simply have not experienced any of this 'race hatred' which my cousins, aunts and uncles have so its impossible to relate to it. I've never been close to any other people from that country, I have 1 friend who is Egyptian from the region, that's it. All my other friends are English, Turkish, all sorts - but not arabs or the muslim crew you'd probably expect. I don't choose this, its just how it is. When I see Palestinians being blown up or shot at on TV it means a little more to me than if I saw any other race when it looks like they are being treated unfairly.

What I find is that the people (Israelis and Palestinians) are in fact remarkably similar and share many of the same habits, characteristics and beliefs - yet they still love to hate each other and refuse to get along. Its sad, we're all human and yet territorialism makes us hate each other.

I would honestly say the only way forward is to just unite the entire world, to just make it a diverse, multicultural worldwide society we live in and just get along - but maybe I am not one of the masses, maybe my own wishes don't tie in with the rest of the world's. Maybe it wouldn't really be possible but surely killing for land is not necessary in this day in age?

[Noels Beard]

Well if that's genuinely your opinion then much credit is due. However, you certainly don't follow a set of truely socialist ideals. You come across as a person who is more than enamoured with the idea of ownership, from which all these ideas develop. If your inheritance was to be taken from you and divided between society as a whole, how would you feel? This is certainly how many people think about the West Bank.

[Ruler of The World]

I see your point but its hardly the same thing! We all live on this planet, it doesn't mean we have to share our wealth and personal belongings, I'm just suggesting we scrub out the lines on the world map, dump the borders and live like we're in 1 big country. I am sure there is a plethora of reasons why this wouldn't work but it would eradicate wars and killings based on territory. You seem to be suggesting that we should also accept leaving our homes open to strangers, throw our money into the air as if I am asking that we all join in a worldwide 'share the wealth' game!

[Noels Beard]

There are so many reasons why that wouldn't work, even with people a lot more open minded than yourself. I take it we wouldn't be extending human rights to the territories we mucked in with? And if we did which of the two scenarios would you prefer, your iPad to cost £1300, or a £70 jackpot to buy you a dozen eggs? The borders between countries, the exchange rate of our currencies, and the differences in our foreign policies, all serve to keep us Britains in the lucky 5-8% of the global population. Now ask yourself, would you really be prepared to compromise your cushy lifestyle to elevate that of the others? How do you think they would feel if they saw you slotting a few grand in a Thai Flower? For most of the global population they'll never have to even think about it, as the terms are perhaps beyond their comprehension. I have an Italian girl lodging with me, and her partners little sister has just took a job in Greece. Her yearly wage is about £4500 before tax. She works a 48 hour week. I'm guessing that at times you've probably blown that in an evening, maybe even in an hour. I know I have. It's a different world. You can't just squeeze it all together and expect it to work. I think the multiculturalism we have here in the UK is a pretty good example. But we still have the burgeoning masses of the BNP and the English Defence League (a strong following in Rugeley, a few miles from me). In practice, as a global community we're still maybe 50 years away from even the start of true integration. And clinging to Capitalist idealism only moves this date further into the future. Ironically it's China and the South Americas (who are only just getting started with Capitalism in a big way) that need to catch up.

[eastangliapro]

you two should get yourselves on question time

[Real Pro gamer]

you could take turns blowing david dimbleby off and then compare notes!