Player V's Player

The Dark Horse · Post by **The Dark Horse** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:29 pm

So apparently my arguments are no longer credible because I have physical scars NB? You seem to be trying to mildly assert that I was in some way boasting about having fights, so showing me in bad light makes your own argument seem more credible. You can clearly see I was just answering your question (which is why I repeated your question in my answer), because I thought it was strange how difficult it was for you to grasp the concept of someone not running away when a knife or gun is pulled on them. Your exact words were, "am I seriously suggesting", as if standing up for yourself against someone who tries to threaten you with a weapon is the most unrealistic and unheard of act of heroics you have ever known. I'm not suggesting that it's a good idea, but I'm trying to show you that there are people with a different mentality to you whose instincts make them react differently when put in situations of danger. You don't need to be Superman to be brave enough to stand up for yourself, sometimes alcohol might play a part or sometimes your instincts will lean towards fight instead of flight.

The best thing I can suggest is to go back there repeatedly with a couple of people. Just the fact you are willing to come back with people will intimidate them a bit, if you do run into them try and stand your ground, it's highly unlikely anybody would end up in the morgue as you seem to think. If they were showing you a gun it was probably for intimidation purposes only, if someone is going to shoot you they generally won't show you the gun first. It probably wasn't even a real gun, more like a replica or a drill through that would blow their hand off if they ever tried to use it. These people aren't real organised high end criminals, just hoodrat kids from the sound of it, they don't have a mercenary waiting at each end of the Spoons to put a bullet in your head for doing the machines, it's really not as big a problem as you think it is in your head.

Maybe you could find someone to deal with the problem for you? I'm sure "The Chief" is up to the job!

Anyway thank you Lee for saying you are a fan, I think you are one of the best posters on here aswell. Let me explain why I think playing fruit machines professionally is a semi criminal lifestyle. Firstly I've mentioned before that playing fruit machines professionally outcasts you from society, we don't pay tax on our earnings and the connection with toolers makes the majority of society perceive us a form of petty criminal. I would argue that what society sees you as is more like what you actually are than what you think or know you are in your head. Also I find it interesting that criminals I know seem to see me as one of them too, they see my living as a "cushy number" that goes "under the radar". Maybe it is? We are making large amounts of tax free money outside of society which is basically a criminal act in it's self these days. Having large amounts of cash that has not had tax paid on it is usually classed as "money laundering" by the police. You can be arrested for carrying over £500 in unexplainable cash on you. Winning the money on fruit machines may be the true explanation, most police will generally accept this if they see the volume of coins, but some wont and will arrest you anyway. There is no law against playing fruit machines professionally, but it is a grey area in the law, there is no law on it at all, which means you are open to the various interpretations of your living that whatever police officer stops you might make. If they think it is criminal you can be sure they will try to attach some form of convenient crime to it, usually money laundering.

So we are all sort of flaunting with the law in some way, even though we are doing nothing illegal in playing machines, having the money on you after is potentially illegal. The fact is that it's mostly other peoples ignorance in thinking we are some sort of criminals that make us lead a semi criminal lifestyle. Not to mention quite a few players use drugs and have criminal records aswell. Of course I don't think what we do for a living is actually criminal in any way.

johncluedo · Post by **johncluedo** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:32 pm

titchno1 wrote:Its frowned upon, just like wanking on a aeroplane.

Due Date CLASSIC!!!

titchno1 · Post by **titchno1** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:00 pm

Is it due date? I thought it was the fat afro guy off hangover. Iva way its class!!!

BFK · Post by **BFK** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:22 am

Justin Credible.

Noels Beard · Post by **Noels Beard** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:05 am

The Dark Horse wrote:So apparently my arguments are no longer credible because I have physical scars NB? You seem to be trying to mildly assert that I was in some way boasting about having fights, so showing me in bad light makes your own argument seem more credible. You can clearly see I was just answering your question (which is why I repeated your question in my answer), because I thought it was strange how difficult it was for you to grasp the concept of someone not running away when a knife or gun is pulled on them. Your exact words were, "am I seriously suggesting", as if standing up for yourself against someone who tries to threaten you with a weapon is the most unrealistic and unheard of act of heroics you have ever known. I'm not suggesting that it's a good idea, but I'm trying to show you that there are people with a different mentality to you whose instincts make them react differently when put in situations of danger. You don't need to be Superman to be brave enough to stand up for yourself, sometimes alcohol might play a part or sometimes your instincts will lean towards fight instead of flight.

The best thing I can suggest is to go back there repeatedly with a couple of people. Just the fact you are willing to come back with people will intimidate them a bit, if you do run into them try and stand your ground, it's highly unlikely anybody would end up in the morgue as you seem to think. If they were showing you a gun it was probably for intimidation purposes only, if someone is going to shoot you they generally won't show you the gun first. It probably wasn't even a real gun, more like a replica or a drill through that would blow their hand off if they ever tried to use it. These people aren't real organised high end criminals, just hoodrat kids from the sound of it, they don't have a mercenary waiting at each end of the Spoons to put a bullet in your head for doing the machines, it's really not as big a problem as you think it is in your head.

Maybe you could find someone to deal with the problem for you? I'm sure "The Chief" is up to the job!

Anyway thank you Lee for saying you are a fan, I think you are one of the best posters on here aswell. Let me explain why I think playing fruit machines professionally is a semi criminal lifestyle. Firstly I've mentioned before that playing fruit machines professionally outcasts you from society, we don't pay tax on our earnings and the connection with toolers makes the majority of society perceive us a form of petty criminal. I would argue that what society sees you as is more like what you actually are than what you think or know you are in your head. Also I find it interesting that criminals I know seem to see me as one of them too, they see my living as a "cushy number" that goes "under the radar". Maybe it is? We are making large amounts of tax free money outside of society which is basically a criminal act in it's self these days. Having large amounts of cash that has not had tax paid on it is usually classed as "money laundering" by the police. You can be arrested for carrying over £500 in unexplainable cash on you. Winning the money on fruit machines may be the true explanation, most police will generally accept this if they see the volume of coins, but some wont and will arrest you anyway. There is no law against playing fruit machines professionally, but it is a grey area in the law, there is no law on it at all, which means you are open to the various interpretations of your living that whatever police officer stops you might make. If they think it is criminal you can be sure they will try to attach some form of convenient crime to it, usually money laundering.

So we are all sort of flaunting with the law in some way, even though we are doing nothing illegal in playing machines, having the money on you after is potentially illegal. The fact is that it's mostly other peoples ignorance in thinking we are some sort of criminals that make us lead a semi criminal lifestyle. Not to mention quite a few players use drugs and have criminal records aswell. Of course I don't think what we do for a living is actually criminal in any way.

I'm not doubting that some people are up for a fight when a gun or a knife are pulled. And you're probably right that 99 times out of 100 they're bluffing you. But the thing is about a misjudgement of this magnitude: you only really get to make it once. Highlighting your bravado doesn't make my arguments look credible: you can't make an eyesore of a car beautiful with chavvy black alloys.

So your fundamental argument is, that because society considers us to be fugitives, we should lower ourselves to these standards? That because criminals think we're on to a good thing, we should expect to be approached, and intimidated? That we should all just 'man-up' a little and be brawling in the Wetherspoons on a Saturday morning?

I don't like that scenario. As Über suggested, the answer is to cut people off that will contribute to this situation becoming too familiar.

Glendale · Post by **Glendale** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:19 am

Beardy brain for the last time, I SPEAK TO ONE PLAYER IN NEWCASTLE! He was playing before i met him! I trust him as a player and friend, if that upsets you then thats your problem! He helps me and i help him! Good god man do you ever have a good day? You must be doing crust the way you go on! Hopefully you cant afford your internet allowance much longer!

Noels Beard · Post by **Noels Beard** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:09 am

You speak to one player who was not a player before you met him, and who talks to multiple rats, who in turn talk to multiple rats. You are the rat king. The Pied Piper of Ipswich.

"and he did play his Merry Tune (Jackpot music from Ten Out Of Ten)! Perched side-saddle upon his moped! And the rats did listen, and although they grew stronger in number they worshipped their king...playing all the Wetherspoons on their way."

trayhop123 · Post by **trayhop123** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:27 am

nice post darky m8,,,,,,,,,,,,, your right , despite being genuine good honest players , ,,,,,,,,, we cant seem to shift the social stigma that comes with the profession , ,,,,,,,, we will always be seen by the uninitiated as part of a criminal fraternity ,,,,,,,,, because these people simply cant comprehend that a clean living can be made from machines that are designed to take money.

i dont necessarily blame these people straight off though ,,,,,,,,,,,, its like any prejudice in life ,,,,,,,,,,,,, without being educated in the ''way of the fruit lol'' , what are they supposed to think ?

which brings me to the police ,,,,,,,,,,,, the police are trained to be sceptical of ,,,,,,,,,, well maybe not sceptical ,,,,,,, but trained to question everything that goes beyond the conventional spectrum meat and two veg of life.

so a new debate ensues fellow fruitchatters ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, your views if you would

the police . and slotting

im sure scott will not have many kind words to say about them ,,,,,, after the 10 month un-substantiated treatment he recently received .

but i can only speak from my own experiences with them ,,,,,,,,,,, and generally they have been ok

your always gonna get that moron pig headed cop who wont listen to reason ,,,,,,,,,,, like the time we were arested in hunstanton for waffas/jim royals ,,,,,,, despite offering to do one infront of him ,,,,,,,,,, he wasn't having none of it ,,,,,,, and telling us we were in serious trouble lol ,,,,,,,,,,, but he came back all smiles and apologies after his phone call to bellfruit confirmed what we had been trying to tell him for 30 mins.

a similar story whilst doing thunderbirds ,had me arrested ,,,,,,,,, and subsequently ended up with me proving to 2 cid's and two constable's the full empty in a pub at 3am ( complete with a bedressing gownd irate landlord ),,,,,,,,, (the full story to which is documented elsewhere ,,, lugs?)

more recently , i was made aware that a pub had called the police on me (after ide left the pub ,,,, doh lol) ,,,,, for cash stacker.

so i took the initiative there and contacted them first ,,,,,,,,, and showed an officer the full speil ,,,,,,,,,, to which he was so astounded , he offered himself for a character reference if ever there was another incident occurred ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, a sort of extra life for me for the inevitable next time i suppose lol.

(he did fuck all when i asked him for help in scotts case though,,,,,,, hmmm ,,,,,,,, saying that he would have a quiet word with scotts arresting officer , but couldn't officially intervine into another officer's independent investigation )

im sure some of you will have nice things to say about em ,,,,,,,,,, and some not so nice lol ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but for me , i support the police ,,,,,,, (infact whenever i see them out at night in the chopper , chaseing down car thieves and such ,,,,,,,,, i think to myself ,,,,, go get em boys )

ooooohhhhh ,,,,,,,, the controversy eh ? ,,,,,,,,, im sure some of you hate them with a passion and have some horror stories to share etc .

but hey ,,,,,,,, they are the uninitiated ,,,,,,,,,,,, they dont understand our niche market etc ,,,,,,,,, their bound to be suspicious ,,,,,,, its their job.

as a rule of thumb though ,,,,,,,,,, whenever confronted with them ,,,,,, i have remained calm in my mannerism's and always always told the truth from the onset ,,,,, lie to em and you lose credibility ,,,,,,,,,,,, hence further suspicion .

besides ,,,,,,,, telling them everything truthfully ,,,,,,,, shouldn't be a problem if you've nothing to hide ,,,,, and your not walking on the outskirts of semi-lol crime.

floodgates are now officially open ,,,,,,,,

feeder22 · Post by **feeder22** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:16 am

Good grief, no wonder i cant make on a machine after you've clued up the old bill

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:35 am

I'd be lying if i said i liked the Police, i never had much time for before my run in, yes, they are just doing their job, i can see that, but they left me without a penny (or so they thought) for 10 months, its like talking to a brick wall, a couple of things my arresting officer said "if it was that easy everyone would be doing it" and my favourite "i've played them myself and i KNOW they can't be beat" lol, when he originally arrested me he was suspicious of the pound coins we had, and he said he was'nt happy so we're going down the Nick for further questioning, fair enough, but he also said if he was wrong he would apologise, when i recently got my property back i asked for this apology only to be told he is just doing his job, they just can't be wrong, will that be the end of it? Are they looking out for me? I've had a few barring's recently, have they circulated my photo? Hope i'm being paranoid.

Which pub was the Thunderbirds story Lee?

Been-Grant-Mitchell'd! · Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:57 am

For me, most of the police are scum.
They lack intelligence and common sense at all levels.

Three times now I've had hassle with them and now I keep a IPCC letter in the glovebox of my car to show them that I am possibly more trouble than it's worth. Only once in Harbourne, Birmingham was one officer - a PC Gordon - understandable about fruits. He said that one guy in his social club knew exactly when the machine would pay etc. And said this in my defence to the arresting officer, but that they still had to go through with the investigations.

All because of some pathetic old tart in an Ember Inn called the police because the mech was rejecting coins on us! Bitch. I hope she crashes her car, goes home to find she's been burgled, makes herself a cup of tea to calm her nerves, only to find they've shit in her kettle.

My mate and I stopped the other night to help a lady who had ran her car off the road into a tree. She was quite shaken up and was grateful of our help.

But if it was a police car, I'd take a few photos of it, laugh and drive home happy.

The Dark Horse · Post by **The Dark Horse** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:22 am

Noels Beard wrote:
So your fundamental argument is, that because society considers us to be fugitives, we should lower ourselves to these standards? That because criminals think we're on to a good thing, we should expect to be approached, and intimidated?

We're not "fugitives", we're not in exile from the law, but if playing fruit machines professionally was made illegal today and you and your assets were wanted by the police I'm sure you would be the first person to flee to the closest country that has no extradition treaty with the UK. Generally people will lower their standards to survive in life.

You really hit the nail on the head with your second sentence. That is exactly what I'm saying. Try and see the logic behind it. You are partaking in an activity that is not only APPEALING but also OPEN to criminals. Criminals want to make large amounts of money and not pay any tax on it, their brains operate on risk and reward thesis, they are willing to partake in highly dangerous activities as long as the pay reaches their high standards. Our living pays wages similair to crime but with a minimal risk level that a criminal would dream of during their normal activities. It's also completely open to criminals, unlike the chance of a well paid job, you don't need any qualifications and the fact of having a criminal record isn't a problem. If our living consisted of a low wage scenario requiring qualifications there wouldn't be any interest from criminals at all. The fact we're in what most criminals would see as a perfect living or lifestyle means that it's obvious that criminals who hear about it would want to become involved. So it would also be obvious to expect any criminals to act with a criminal mentality once involved in the scene, approaching and intimidating people like yourself. It's just common sense.

Nobody likes this scenario, nobody wants to fight over a fruit on a Saturday morning. The problem is you are going about solving it in a pointless way. Even if you could stop Glendale receiving information these people will still receive information from internet sites and other people on these internet sites. New criminal players would still emerge in the future thanks to internet sites about our living. Blaming Glendale as the one true cause of criminals in the game won't solve anything or help the situation at all. Try finding a more productive way to solve the situation.

Noels Beard · Post by **Noels Beard** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:32 am

Fundamentally i agree with every point you make. And i know that im sitting in my throne on the beach trying to stop the tide. However, in the absence of a better option, I'm just doing what I can.

eastangliapro · Post by **eastangliapro** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:08 pm

Mexico!!!!!!!i thought that said texaco were running low on gas!!!!!!!

Mr McStreak · Post by **Mr McStreak** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:58 pm

William Barnes.