Do you support yourself solely from fruit machines?

[sir ratholer]

I do niether, but if I lost my job tomorrow I'd be working minimum wage monday somewhere while I looked for better.

I'd also be suplimenting that income with poker.

why wouldn't you just play poker? Surely your hourly rate at that > minimum wage?

[sir ratholer]

On a slight side note, I got a phone call from HSBC this afternoon about my account saying I need to convert it into a business account to be still allowed to bank with them! Apparently my 'income' is too high for an unemployed person with a personal account!

you're about month away from a call from the police for money laundering.. get whatever cash you have saved and at home changed up into £20's and pay the whole lot into either a safety deposit account or stash it at a trusted relatives place... and close the account you have.

seriously? You've got me worried now. Has this happened to someone you know then?

[redlinesman]

Have to say that I think pokerpete is talking sense and is morally right about what he says. A lot of people seem to continue talking about spending money to contribute to the economy, but this has nothing to do with income tax, totally irrelevant. This is the type of argument a drug dealer would try and latch onto, totally pathetic if you ask me.

The point about why we should chip in to house potential terrorist or hate preachers is totally ridiculous. What about the hospitals, schools, colleges, public services, the army, navy, + the countless other things that are paid for by income tax. Some players have made a lot from this game, and also took a hell of a lot from the government without giving anything back. An income tax for professional gamblers would be just and right, in circumstances where there is a sustained period of profit. I say this even though its certainly not in my interest but I know whats right. I'll come out this game a millionaire and it's scandlous I haven't had to pay a penny of income tax but what can I say. I have contributed to society in other ways and aim to carry that on in the future.

[Mr McStreak]

Have to say that I think pokerpete is talking sense and is morally right about what he says. A lot of people seem to continue talking about spending money to contribute to the economy, but this has nothing to do with income tax, totally irrelevant. This is the type of argument a drug dealer would try and latch onto, totally pathetic if you ask me.

The point about why we should chip in to house potential terrorist or hate preachers is totally ridiculous. What about the hospitals, schools, colleges, public services, the army, navy, + the countless other things that are paid for by income tax. Some players have made a lot from this game, and also took a hell of a lot from the government without giving anything back. An income tax for professional gamblers would be just and right, in circumstances where there is a sustained period of profit. I say this even though its certainly not in my interest but I know whats right. I'll come out this game a millionaire and it's scandlous I haven't had to pay a penny of income tax but what can I say. I have contributed to society in other ways and aim to carry that on in the future.

Its not ridiculous at all, its a point that strikes a chord with an overwhelming majority of people who work. I've had jobs over the years and certainly paid my fair share of tax. What i'd like to see but will never happen is a system whereby the taxpayer chooses what services benefit from their hard earned cash, be it in their local community or across the nation.

I know where i'd like to see any tax I pay go.



And it isn't to pay for Mrs Choudary to have a new 52" Sony plasma HD TV fitted in the main bathroom of the spacious Victorian Townhouse in Islington she shares with her 7 kids, While her husband plots to disrupt another Servicemens Homecoming Parade.

[redlinesman]

The race card is often played in life but I can never subscribe to it because people from all races, British whites included milk the system for every penny. If it's an Asian, Chinese, European or British it doesn't really strike a chord with me because Britain has long been a multi-cultural society and much of its modern day sucess has been built on it.

Personally, I don't think the public deciding what to spend their tax payments on is a good idea. Apart from the fact a large percentage would lack any know-how or intellect to make such decisions, most people would probably be biased in terms of favouring themselves or realtives. This is why we elect MP's and governments for fair representaion and impartality. It's not a perfect system, I doubt there could ever be one, but it's certainly better than individual members of the public making decisions of self-interest.

I don't think pro-gamblers should be exempt from income tax because we are entitled to and use all the public services that everyone else with an income pays for. I can't see fruit machine players been taxed in the near future but I believe poker players and betting exchange traders could be in for a shock in the non to distant future.

[Spyder]

income tax collected is LESS than benefits paid out

why the fuck should anyone be taxed literally to pay someone elses benefits?


other taxation is merged towards the upkeep of the country.. council tax pays for your local services, VAT pays for a lot of things you wouldnt expect...

stop bickering about stuff that makes no difference and never will


however i do advise all of you to pay your minimum national insurance contributions... then if you ever do need dole/pention you will get it.

[blackmogu]

On a slight side note, I got a phone call from HSBC this afternoon about my account saying I need to convert it into a business account to be still allowed to bank with them! Apparently my 'income' is too high for an unemployed person with a personal account!

you're about month away from a call from the police for money laundering.. get whatever cash you have saved and at home changed up into £20's and pay the whole lot into either a safety deposit account or stash it at a trusted relatives place... and close the account you have.

seriously? You've got me worried now. Has this happened to someone you know then?

1. If you were going to be reported for money laundering, you would have been flagged a long time ago. It's all software based analytics. No human intervention required.

2. You don't get "pre-warnings" about money laundering from your bank. The first you know about it is the knock on the door.

3. The advice given is worthless. The trail already exists. Even if you move your money, you would still have to account for it.

4. You're likely being tapped up by HSBC to convert to a business account due to the extra fees involved.

Nothing to worry about. If you feel really paranoid, keep a record of your income from gambling. It's not taxable, so there is no downside to doing so. In the event of you getting a visit from the police, you have something they can verify your claim of where you generate your wealth with.

[sir ratholer]

Thanks, that's solid advice.

HSBC have told me that a business account would be free, but I don't believe that for one minute. I'm pretty sure that I'll be going to my appointment with the intention of closing my account down. I've got accounts with several other institutions so it's not a huge loss. HSBC is convenient as they usually care less about paying huge amount of coins in/changing lots of coins up than other banks, but as bewitched once said, 'c'est la vie'.

I'll just have to make sure I change up more in pubs etc so I can pay money into my building society account which masquerades as a bank despite being only able to pay £100 in coins in a day.

[harry2]

Business bank charges
Direct Debit 40p
Standing orders 42p
Cheques and other debits 63p
Cheques paid in 26p
Cash paid in per £100 58p
Cash paid out per £100 60p
BACS payments 40p
Internet payments 40p
Account maintenance charge £5.00 per month
Night safe usage £2.00
Unpaid item or referral fee £35.00

Then there is audit fees and others.

[Spyder]

true the flag for laundering would be automatic and already gone through..

but a call from the bank saying you pay too much money in via cash deposits is not a good thing..

record keeping and making videos of you playing the machines legitamately might help you case later on if anything ever does come up.. so video every legit machine you play, a red paying a jackpot or something every few days should back up the fact that you win on them?

personally id be worried..

[sir ratholer]

Agreed, it's not a good thing and I'm worried about it.

Having said that, I'll close the account down if need be and have no qualms about doing so. I also do have some friends in CID with the county police force and funnily enough I was already meeting them today, so I'll be talking to them.

I was massively insulted on the phone too. I pride myself on being pretty eloquent and the guy says to me 'don't worry, i'll explain everything in laymans terms', to which I said, don't worry, I have a degree in accounting and finance so I'm sure I'll cope with your more detailed explanations...

[pokerpete]

People who work also spend moey on petrol, gadgets, clothes, groceries.

Unemployment as a life style choice is nothing to be proud of.

People grinding out a living on minimum wage contribute more to society.

your the one who must be joking now ,,,,,,,,,

lets look at all 3 of your points

1, yes they do admittedly , but miniscule in comparison ,,,,,,,,,, average joe takes home £260 a week ,,,,,,,, we take an average 500-700 ,,,,,,,,,,, so as for contributing to the economy ,,,,,,,,, you do the maths.


2, were self employed ,,,,,,,, end of ,,,,,,,,,,,, so proud doesn't come into it. ,,,,,,,,,,, guess you've been brought up with the old chestnut '' a conventional job is the be all end all of human existence , if you dont have one , then your scum of the earth lowlife draining everybody else''


3, elaborate please,,,,,,,,,,,, how?



overall pete , i think that you have a very jaded opinion of the modern full time pro,,,,,,, we have evolved from the lowlife seaside pikey scumbags,( well apart from gary lol),,,,, into responsible adults who arnt draining anything from anyone , and simply chose to live our lives outside of the system.


ps ,,,,,,,,,, if this is some sort of jeremy beedle wind up bollocks ,,,,,,,, then well done , ive took a big bite :P

1. The average wage in this country is a lot higher than you stated
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

2. You're not self employed, you're unemployed. You are not self sufficient because you take from society without paying your way.

3. If you work, you contribute. whether you sweep the streets or you are a company director, you're a cog in the machine. Pro players are not contributing to the machine very positively.

I would say, I'm not actually advocating taxing players like some are.

[sir ratholer]

Pete - point 2 is a joke. I'm sorry but anyone who says machine players aren't self sufficient is deluded.

[trayhop123]

yeah sorry pete , ,,,,,,,,,,,, im open minded to a lot of your views , their well written and well thought out ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, im not even arguing over whether or not we should be taxed.

but your point 2 is ridiculous ,,,,,,,, i just cant fathom what it is i supposedly take from society .

i pay full council tax
i pay full prescription charges
i pay full dental work
i pay full water rates , gas , electric etc ,,,,,,,,,,,, nothing is subsidised
its well known by many on here , that i dont have a scrapnell bottle , so im giving at least £10-15 a week to charitable causes ,,,,,, that alone makes me feel im doing my bit to contribute to the greater good of society .

so what exactly do i drain from the taxpayer ?

[pokerpete]

you're not self sufficient.
You rely on health care, policing, Fire & Rescue, national defence, arts and sport, subsidised farming, schools for your kids.

You are not contributing to the payment of those things.

Council tax covers local ammenities.
Your private bills aren't relative.

Society is a huge complex machine and you take from it every minute of the day.