S16s - Utter rubbish

Dynamike · Post by **Dynamike** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:11 pm

All this comptuery jiggery-pokery is something I know nothing about, so could someone answer this in laymans terms?

If s16s are random, why do they often repeat JP within £50ish (slotto) or have good afterplay? In essence they appear to streak like a fruit machine does.

Demmerz · Post by **Demmerz** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:39 pm

Demmerz wrote: As Chav666 said, human nature is to look for patterns. You try different patterns, then one works. So you try it again and it works again and you think you've cracked it - but you've only reached a streak of 'win' commands. Then the payout stops but you keep trying your 'tried and tested' method and before you know it you've lost all of your money.

Completely random outcome. You could have hit a win/lose cycle that works in your favour:

LLLWLLLLLLLLLLWWWWWWWLLLLLWLLLLLLL.

--------------------^^^^^^ > that's your streak

Mattb · Post by **Mattb** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:08 pm

Looks more like Cambridge Uniteds form last season in the conference

Matt

chav666 · Post by **chav666** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:01 pm

Random number generators in laymens terms: -

VERY POWERFUL computer program generates an endless string of random numbers between x & y.

The user presses the start button. (this is the TRULY random element) This selects the number

The generator sends this number to the machine.

Your win (if your lucky) is displayed as pretty fruits and bouncing graphics.

You continue until bankrupt, depressed, near suicidal and in the gutter......

Oh the wonders of modern technology.

Cash is King · Post by **Cash is King** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:04 pm

To crack it you would probably have to seat and watch a machine 24/7 365 days a year for about 50 years and mark down the exact time to beyond a milisecond that the button was pushed to acheive £500.

Take all your readings and calculate at what time precisly the button needs to be pushed to acheive £500 and at this stage you think to your self what was the point of that

Dunhamzzz · Post by **Dunhamzzz** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:09 pm

then brag about it on SA !!

Matt Vinyl · Post by **Matt Vinyl** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:54 pm

From a (mildly basic) programmers' point of view... random numbers are generated based on the computers clock. A complex algorithm (someone might want to share?) is calculated, using the millisecond 'part' of the 'current time' as the 'seed'.

Just a point to take note of...

TheMission · Post by **TheMission** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:57 pm

Mine aren't!!

Matt Vinyl · Post by **Matt Vinyl** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:59 pm

I don't believe there's another way to do it then?

PM if poss, I'm not interested in S16s, just programming, and AI, and randomisation and stuff like that...

TheMission · Post by **TheMission** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:30 am

The algorithm I use can be done in a few assembler instructions on even the most basic processor (bear in mind there are still many Z80 and 6809 based machines out there). It uses 2^32 outcomes as I indicated previously (actually 2^32 - 1). So in actual fact not that complex at all.

It's ages since I looked at it and I hate to get the details wrong, so I'll dig it out at work tomorrow.

[Edit] It doesn't use real-time clock values, which is a bonus 'cause if you're trying to program a cheap, simple or old system you may not have one!

COASTERDESIGNERPRO1 · Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:19 am

Isn't sec 16's done by a RNG and Sec 21's done by an internal clock?

TheMission · Post by **TheMission** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:30 pm

Matt Vinyl - checked on the RNG algorithm today and it is basically a free-running maximal LFSR as described here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_fee ... t_register

Instead of the single bit output described there though, all the binary bits are used to form a very large number which can be divided down as you wish.

For extra 'randomness', keep it free-running in hardware, or via an interrupt in software, and use some other non-predictable event to instigate taking a sample e.g. pressing the SPIN button! If you want to further modify the output via an available real-time clock value then go ahead.

Dunhamzzz · Post by **Dunhamzzz** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:40 am

Dunhamzzz wrote:mate had a double off random monopoly last nite from £20, one spin after the other. 980 up. good stuff

HAH! Same guy got £500 from reel king today from just £4. Spawny git!

Matt Vinyl · Post by **Matt Vinyl** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:29 pm

TM - cheers for the link! Interesting stuff...!

I had a bit of a one-track mind as to how I programme things, so it's always nice to learn other techniques...

mjd · Post by **mjd** » Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:31 am

totally off the main topic, but I saw a S16 for the first time ever the other night!
A service station about 8 miles from Bradford and the 'games room' looked pretty horrifying!

about 10 machines in one room, bit like PT's room!