Unfair Experiences Which You Have Followed Up In Writing
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Noels Beard
This is exactly my point. You complain to the pub / arcade. At best they're part of a chain - Whitbread maybe, and you are able to put your argument across. At worst, they are independently run and do not have a complaints procedure as such. What the Commission has in place is totally impractical for Pubs / Arcades. As I have said, I'm guessing close to 0% of complaints are resolved. There is the requirement for an outside party to be called upon, but if this is BACTA, they're far too biased within the sector already.
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Been-Grant-Mitchell'd!
- Senior Member
- Posts: 957
- Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:03 am
- Location: West Sussex
The Gambling Commission is useless.
They don't even know the law they're supposed to uphold.
And I'm not joking either.
I've had a few moans at them, regarding progressive/static cashpots on ferries and landbased establishments.
When it came down to the static pot argument, all they said was "well if the cashpot is on £250, and you get it twice, surely that's better for you?"
This is true, ring them yourselves.
After convincing them that you know more about the Gambling Law than they do, and reading back to them their own laws, they are no better. They'll eventually contact the companies in question and after being fed a load of bollocks by them, will email you back saying they've come to a satisfactory conclusion.
Gamcare are cunts aswell.
Telling them you've been barred from a William Hill just because you were playing a Lucky8 on £1 a spin, they'll say it's not their jurisdiction. Then you say "William Hill are trying to make me bet beyond my means, as I can only afford £1 per go" they'll say you can get help if you're finding gambling to be a problem!
For fuck sake!
Tell the same thing to the GC and they literally say they can't really help much as the Bookmaker doesn't have to give a reason to exclude you, and to bet elsewhere.
And this caffe latte I've just bought tastes like cats' sick.
They don't even know the law they're supposed to uphold.
And I'm not joking either.
I've had a few moans at them, regarding progressive/static cashpots on ferries and landbased establishments.
When it came down to the static pot argument, all they said was "well if the cashpot is on £250, and you get it twice, surely that's better for you?"
This is true, ring them yourselves.
After convincing them that you know more about the Gambling Law than they do, and reading back to them their own laws, they are no better. They'll eventually contact the companies in question and after being fed a load of bollocks by them, will email you back saying they've come to a satisfactory conclusion.
Gamcare are cunts aswell.
Telling them you've been barred from a William Hill just because you were playing a Lucky8 on £1 a spin, they'll say it's not their jurisdiction. Then you say "William Hill are trying to make me bet beyond my means, as I can only afford £1 per go" they'll say you can get help if you're finding gambling to be a problem!
For fuck sake!
Tell the same thing to the GC and they literally say they can't really help much as the Bookmaker doesn't have to give a reason to exclude you, and to bet elsewhere.
And this caffe latte I've just bought tastes like cats' sick.
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Roll_With_It_Russ
- Senior Member
- Posts: 783
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:51 pm
To be faire when ever I have complained to any of the chain/brewery pubs the quickest route is complaint to customer services, they get in touch with the pub and the machine operator and the issue is resolved.
Independant pubs you know your in that risky territory, getting involved with unknowns never usually results in a satisfactory outcome, most independants don't seem to bother with machines round here anyway.
Simple precautions like not getting involved on such machines, not building up banks, playing pound by pound is all seems common sense to me.
As I don't play machines everyday it comes as no surprise I don't have as many issues as some say they do, but if I ever get in a situation where I am left out of pocket its often worth taking a step back and asking is it going to cost more time/hassle to resolve than what its worth.
Independant pubs you know your in that risky territory, getting involved with unknowns never usually results in a satisfactory outcome, most independants don't seem to bother with machines round here anyway.
Simple precautions like not getting involved on such machines, not building up banks, playing pound by pound is all seems common sense to me.
As I don't play machines everyday it comes as no surprise I don't have as many issues as some say they do, but if I ever get in a situation where I am left out of pocket its often worth taking a step back and asking is it going to cost more time/hassle to resolve than what its worth.
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Noels Beard
I've spoken to the gambling commission at length a few times as part of my dissertation, they're currently far more concerned with the gambling patterns of problem gamblers and the implications of FOBTs and online gambling than they ever would be about a few people complaining about the fact that landlords won't let them win on fruit machines.
Not that i'm not saying it's fruitless (i agree with it all), it's dealing with as series of points that do have relevance, but looking at it objectively, as it's been mentioned they're far from useful, and further, i'm not sure how you really expect anyone to have any sympathy (never mind create a framework of transparency to operate in) ..when the ones who actually benefit from this don't pay tax... it's shit but the best you'll get is told that it's between you and the pub, and the worst, to get a real job.
A few years back someone started the fairplay campaign, proving categorically that fruit machines cheat like fuck and sometimes offer no opportunity of success... what did he get, he got a sticker.
Not that i'm not saying it's fruitless (i agree with it all), it's dealing with as series of points that do have relevance, but looking at it objectively, as it's been mentioned they're far from useful, and further, i'm not sure how you really expect anyone to have any sympathy (never mind create a framework of transparency to operate in) ..when the ones who actually benefit from this don't pay tax... it's shit but the best you'll get is told that it's between you and the pub, and the worst, to get a real job.
A few years back someone started the fairplay campaign, proving categorically that fruit machines cheat like fuck and sometimes offer no opportunity of success... what did he get, he got a sticker.
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Noels Beard
I really must stress very strongly that I'm not expecting sympathy. Further to this I'm not really expecting to be cross-examined as to my every move. I'm just going to highlight some genuine individual experiences, and reference them against the legislation and guidelines that exist.
The turnover of fruit machines is arguably considerably lower than for FOBT and online gambling. Perhaps the lower amounts of money involved also mean that fewer people complain. However, the biggest reason nitching is done about it is because many of us think we're on to a good thing and don't want to kick up a fuss.
I've stopped thinking like this. I don't do anything illegal, and I'm fed up of being treated like a criminal when I win. I'm not going to advertise that I often win, as that's none of anyones business. Believe me, if the industry wanted it any other way, we would be seeing it by now.
The turnover of fruit machines is arguably considerably lower than for FOBT and online gambling. Perhaps the lower amounts of money involved also mean that fewer people complain. However, the biggest reason nitching is done about it is because many of us think we're on to a good thing and don't want to kick up a fuss.
I've stopped thinking like this. I don't do anything illegal, and I'm fed up of being treated like a criminal when I win. I'm not going to advertise that I often win, as that's none of anyones business. Believe me, if the industry wanted it any other way, we would be seeing it by now.
Aye as you say, many of the cognitive and behavioural aspects of the FOBT and the slot machine are the same, but it's the fact that much larger amounts of money can be gambled on a FOBT and their ever increasing popularity that makes them so interesting to the commission at the moment (something like 54% of william hill's revenues last year came from FOBT's), as there are in effect 9,000 insufficiently regulated mini-casinos in the UK at the moment.
I think it's a great idea what you're doing and i'm sick of everyone looking at you like you're an alien when you win something so i'd love it if you actually got somewhere with it. i just don't think they'll give two shits sadly, which is no reflection on anything you're doing, it's just a poor reflection on them.
I think it's a great idea what you're doing and i'm sick of everyone looking at you like you're an alien when you win something so i'd love it if you actually got somewhere with it. i just don't think they'll give two shits sadly, which is no reflection on anything you're doing, it's just a poor reflection on them.
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anfield road
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:48 am
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Roll_With_It_Russ
- Senior Member
- Posts: 783
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:51 pm
Just because someone does not pay income tax, it does not mean they don't pay tax. Most pay more tax elsewhere, VAT on everything in the pub, duty on the drinks... the list is long.Drpepper wrote:.when the ones who actually benefit from this don't pay tax... it's shit but the best you'll get is told that it's between you and the pub, and the worst, to get a real job.
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Noels Beard
I am aware of that (if you really do need me to quantify that, we don't directly pay income tax... also some people willingly admit to claiming JSA whilst playing).... It's just i very much doubt they'll take the view that by buying a shit load of fuel, gingsters, and halves of coke that we offer as much tax income as someone employed on a comparable wage. Hence they'll likely think we have it good enough already, and if they don't mention it, i'm confident it will at least subconsciously factor into whatever we eventually get fobbed off with...Roll_With_It_Russ wrote:Just because someone does not pay income tax, it does not mean they don't pay tax. Most pay more tax elsewhere, VAT on everything in the pub, duty on the drinks... the list is long.
They're supposed to be objective, but it's anyones guess to what extent this rings true, i for one don't believe it for a second.
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Roll_With_It_Russ
- Senior Member
- Posts: 783
- Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:51 pm
Noels Beard wrote:There is an argument that we should be taxed twice if gambling is our sole income. However, I've told the inland revenue and never heard anything back; and a good friend has actually taken a member of the inland revenue to show them what he does, and the matter was dropped.
What is this arguement, gambling, that is placing a bet is not taxable in the uk. No forms of betting in this way are classed as a skill, therefor can not be a profession, so can not be taxed.
They could tax a bet, but they got rid of this to allow new forms of betting(fobts) which just would not work if you have to place tax on the stake or the returns, so its operator profits that are taxed, casino licenses are the exception where they pay 50% on the take.
Should it of been the other way and gambling is classed as a skill and you did it as a living, can you imagine the fraud when it comes to tax returns.
