Are we all doomed?

[redlinesman]

To put the rumours straight, there are no new laws or government changes coming in this September or even the following one. It all happened September 07 and I would imagine most players have realised the changes that have come into force. As far as the quote that says pubs are losing players to bookies, I've never heard so much rubbish. The whole concept of having machines in pubs is completely different to that of having them in betting shops. I would certainly say pubs and bookies go hand in hand (theres that many bookes plonked next to a pub) but I would strongly disagree that they are in direct competition and would go as far to say that they benefit one another. People in the pub industry sometimes forget why pubs first and foremost exist, and lose track of what they should be concentrating on. They see bookies profits have doubled due to the betting terminals and think they should be in on the act. Well its not going to happen in the next 10 years so my advice to any publican who can't make money on beer and food is to get out of the game.

Machines are definatly finished, you better get down the job centre. This is what I was told 9 years ago and what I've been told repeatedly over and over again in the years to the present day. I knew one or two decent players who actually believed this (it could also of been due to the fact that they couldn't manage the lifestyle), stopped playing and it's probably cost them the best part of half a milliion quid. Personally, as a rule I don't believe what people say unless I know them really well and even then im sometimes still sceptical. Gamblers and even people who hang around pubs are notorious for telling distruths and exaggerating. If a gambler tells you he's won or lost a certain amount, you'd better half or even quarter it to get a more realistic figure, not in every case but more often than not. On the digital front, I can't wait for them because it should present more oppurtunities. It will be a different format, but any player worth his salt should be able to make the transition to something that in principle will be the same. The future looks bright but theres always room for new initative and improvement.

[mr lugsy]

this whole rumour sprouted from the fact that arcadians were unhappy with the limits imposed on them by the new law.they were arguing that as they couldnt sell alcohol ,then why could pubs have gambling? being as pubs principal business is drinking and vice versa ,they were saying it wasnt fair and they were getting squeezed harder than other segments of the leisure industry. it wont happen but many arcade owners are trying their luck desperately with this one .

[aaamusements.co.uk]

Here are THE FACTS, from the government, regarding AWP fruit machines in "non gambling premises":
http://www.culture.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/ ... sheet2.pdf

I did get the date wrong, all machines in these premises will actually have to be removed by 31st July 2009.

This will NOT apply to pubs.

[alcozar]

Not sure about everybody else but all nearby pubs seem to be closing within a month or two of each other. Seems like trade is going downhill big time lately.

I would be surprised if pubs stopped doing fruit machines altogether, expect it's more likely that they will get worse if anything (£15 per board minimum).

[redlinesman]

The July 09 date is simply an extension of the new gambling laws that came into force in Sepetember 07. How many 'non gambling premesis' have machines in apart from takeways and the odd taxi rank. To be honest, I'd say its quite insignificant and won't effect me just like the majority of people.

[betchrider]

Harrumph

[RUDE]

I knew one or two decent players who actually believed this (it could also of been due to the fact that they couldn't manage the lifestyle), stopped playing and it's probably cost them the best part of half a milliion quid.

Yeah I know what you mean, it's tough getting up when you want, spending your days in pubs/arcades/services, drinking beer, eating shit and playing fruits. I can see why people may take the easy option and get up at 8am and work til 6.

I wish I was dedicated enough to be a full time player. Damn it, I might even have £500,000 in the bank like you say. Instead, all I've got is a reliable income, prospects, a good social life and a CV without gaps.

I wish I was like you....

[redlinesman]

Hope I haven't touched a raw nerve there changingstake. It's easy to stereotype fruitmachine players and their lyfestyles, but don't judge everyone the same. I sometimes mix with a couple of players I've known a long time who probably earn more than most MD's and directors. They are married, have kids and from what I can see have adequate social lives. I also come across players on the circuit who are just general addicts and have found a way to make money and there's also more general unsavoury characters doing the rounds. I myself, hardly ever drink alcohol (maybe twice a month with close mates) as nearly every drink I buy is sinked or binned, the only drink I will actually consume when im working is water or orange and water. I normally get a jacket potato in a pub for my lunch everyday but most of my main meals except on a Saturday are either cooked for me by my girlfriend or my mother. I run around 30 miles a week and also play tennis and table tennis when I get chance. My social life is probably fairly boring but my gf and I are happy with the way things work out and Im sure there'll be chance to socialise more often in the future. I know plenty of guys come on this board saying unreliable money, no prospects, gaps in CV etc and I can't speak for everyone, but personally I'd probably regard myself as the worlds greatest idiot if I gave this living up. The money is unbelievably reliable and I simply don't understand people who say it isn't. Im not bothered about gaps in my CV because I don't have one and as far as prospects go, I think mine are ok.

Maybe Im trying to justify what I do, but Im just being honest and I think most of the respectable players out there will echo me. If your a sucessful full-time player you need to have a bit of steel, not be put off easy and have plenty of stamina. I believe I've improved over the years and I hope I've reached a certain standard, hopefully in the the future I can turn my hand to something but I don't want an everyday job where Im working to line someones pockets. I like to use my own initative which creates a free environment and lets me get by.

[ob]

Hope I haven't touched a raw nerve there changingstake. It's easy to stereotype fruitmachine players and their lyfestyles, but don't judge everyone the same. I sometimes mix with a couple of players I've known a long time who probably earn more than most MD's and directors. They are married, have kids and from what I can see have adequate social lives. I also come across players on the circuit who are just general addicts and have found a way to make money and there's also more general unsavoury characters doing the rounds. I myself, hardly ever drink alcohol (maybe twice a month with close mates) as nearly every drink I buy is sinked or binned, the only drink I will actually consume when im working is water or orange and water. I normally get a jacket potato in a pub for my lunch everyday but most of my main meals except on a Saturday are either cooked for me by my girlfriend or my mother. I run around 30 miles a week and also play tennis and table tennis when I get chance. My social life is probably fairly boring but my gf and I are happy with the way things work out and Im sure there'll be chance to socialise more often in the future. I know plenty of guys come on this board saying unreliable money, no prospects, gaps in CV etc and I can't speak for everyone, but personally I'd probably regard myself as the worlds greatest idiot if I gave this living up. The money is unbelievably reliable and I simply don't understand people who say it isn't. Im not bothered about gaps in my CV because I don't have one and as far as prospects go, I think mine are ok.

Maybe Im trying to justify what I do, but Im just being honest and I think most of the respectable players out there will echo me. If your a sucessful full-time player you need to have a bit of steel, not be put off easy and have plenty of stamina. I believe I've improved over the years and I hope I've reached a certain standard, hopefully in the the future I can turn my hand to something but I don't want an everyday job where Im working to line someones pockets. I like to use my own initative which creates a free environment and lets me get by.

you talk alot of good sense redlinesman, but I can't help feeling you are neglecting to mention the negative side of the equation:

a) machines are going more random style, I can't think of many new machines, ie. showtime/ocheocheoche/cash or bust/andycapp/video AWP (that covers all major manufacturors), that are regularly profitable, IF AT ALL

b) there are LOADS of players around at the moment

I'm sure its not just me, the regular makers are old reds, cleudo clones, occasional dond (winstopper etc...), these are being phased out... and with the phase out, any regular money there is in this game....

Please feel free to contradict me with an example of a good current new machine (the only one I can think off is cash attack which is rare anyhow) that is common.

Personally I have enjoyed the lifestyle of a player for a few years, and even though I can walk into a good job (having a 2/1 degree and masters) I prefer to life the easy life whilst it's there, I can't say I've worked hard like some have and have £50/100+K banked (although got £10K+ banked), although banking a load of money has never really been the ultimate aim, just to enjoy the lifestyle, when it has to change... it willl...

[RUDE]

To Redlinesman,

Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on one at you. I'd have a couple of beers watching the football (what a game! speaking as a neutral) and was in an argumentative mood. So, sorry.

The only bit of your message I took exception at was your implication that working in a 'proper' job is the cop-out alternative to playing full-time.

Having done both I can honestly say that playing is a FAR more enjoyable (if unhealthy) lifestyle. Yes, you work very long hours sometimes and drive to the moon and back every year BUT you choose your own hours, are your own boss and can drink lager at work!! :P

I fear, as I'm sure many do, if (when) machines as we know them are phased out, I don't want to be someone who's still struggling to find 'hits' amoungst all the dross and panicing because my savings are drying up and nobody will employ me.

I can't be the only one.

[aaamusements.co.uk]

The July 09 date is simply an extension of the new gambling laws that came into force in Sepetember 07. How many 'non gambling premesis' have machines in apart from takeways and the odd taxi rank. To be honest, I'd say its quite insignificant and won't effect me just like the majority of people.

I was not commenting on it's significance, I was just trying to stop the rumour and clarify the actual law regarding these premises.

You are right that it will have no real significance to most players; the government brought this in so that kids are less likely to be exposed to easy opportunities for gambling whilst under age.

How successful will that be? Not very. Machines will in many cases just be replaced with pseudo-skill, 30% payout SWP and quiz machines that could be even more tempting for kids to lose their money in...

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I think the original post in this thread wasn't implying a legal reason for pubs to stop having machines in, it was more likely referring to the fact that most suppliers are scaling back there operations in the pub sector and in some cases considering completely removing the tradional AWP product. This is quite well documented in publications like coinslot, the publican and some of the broadsheets

[trayhop123]

redlinesman, i too am in the "all my life full time player, money banked pro non tooler club"
and i agree and respect most of your post, but as for thinking our prospects are still rosy, i dont know ,,,,, sure things are great now and we have been through dead nowt to play periods in the past, but anyone can see where this game is headed, with mass digitals and randoms looming, ,,,, i just cant see any of us doin this full time 2-3 years from now maybe sooner.

[HorseRacingKing]

Bet you wished you had got jobs now.

I trust a few of us on here will have tens of thousands in savings, some I bet may even have enough money for a house if they have saved well over the years in the game.

I'm sure, if and when the game is up, there will be some investment opportunities & business start-ups.

And the rest of you, Mr Polska and Mr Lithuania have your Min. Wage work!

Fuck off mate, a council house costs about 80k now.


And you expect to start a business off?

you'll be lucky to make 10k a year let alone a good 100+ for house and business over a few years.

max top you can get is £105

MUG

[redlinesman]

I may be wrong but I don't see what the problem is with going digital - it will be exactly the same concept. I think it will be a lot longer than 2-3 years before machines go random because of the way our society is and the fear of the government that we will turn into a nation of gamblers. The only reason pubs get away with having machines on their premesis is because they are classed as AWP's and the whole key to this is that they are set on a percentage and therefore progressive. I don't think the goverment would change their stance on this in the next 20 years nevermind the next 2. Whether there is an alternative that comes along with new technology I don't know, but I would be fairly certain that the line drawn of what is allowed in pubs will remain. There is no doubt that some pubs are suffering a significant loss in trade but it's got nothing to do with machines. What we may see happening in the future is with companies like LL wanting to opt out, some pubs might come to the fore and say , right were going to buy our own machines instead of renting, and let them stay in a year or whatever. When you think about it, a machine is going to pay for itself in a short period of time and good money will be made for some pubs.