500jps observation

[TheMission]

do the old s16 video cabinets e.g pts have a virtual reel band that they generate a landing position on the screen from? or did they generate a completely random screen of symbols from the entire possible outcome every game?
on pts rarely do you see melons in any significant quantity ,though they are only 2 bucks for 5 of them ,on this point i am sure a run on melons is unlikely. it seems very unlucky indeed . are some of the possible outcomes un used? if so who is behind this ?

My S16s worked in exactly the same fashion as Slotto - in that there were no reelbands as such. As long as the probability of generating a particular symbol was the same for the top, middle and bottom position on a specific reel, then it didn't matter how the winlines were constructed. That's not the only way to do it though.

[TheMission]

I always say this, but they can run to a percentage as the in-game features can be compensated according to the cash in/cash out levels.

Never happened on my stuff Matt - because there isn't a need to compensate anything. Thousands of casinos across the globe understand this. It seems one or two on this forum, erm, don't.

[Mattb]

Yeah i guess you are right, i am a dunce. Lets make TheMission PM!

[mrdave]

Not wanting to labour the point, but going back to my example of Reel King having sequences of lots of jackpot symbols on reels 4 and 5, spin after spin. Anyone who has not seen this happen can't have played it.

Without knowing for definate what is or isnt random, surely even those 100% random supporters on here can see why when this part of the gameplay is so blatantly NOT random, people obviously question the random-ness of the machine in general.

[cashino]

It's not the subject that's the problem, it's the serious attitude people like 'ob' and 'the mission' have when people disagree with their, equally speculative, opinions.

Could you please explain exactly how my opinion can be "speculative" when I have been doing the stats and writing the code for production S16s/random Cat B3s for three years?

Excuse me for having to point this out again but all known Section 16 machines were not, WERE NOT, random.

Fail. I know of S16s that were. I wrote them.

But if we bet black next spin for 1k and it comes up, the house is minus a huge percentage.

With that one statement you demonstrate your utter stupidity. It doesn't matter how much you bet. Forget 'table limits'. The percentage is the ratio of payout/stake. Double the stake, you double the payout. The ratio (and therefore the percentage) is EXACTLY THE SAME.

Crikey, 'expert in mathematics' who are you trying to fool??? You try and misquote my meaning to make me appear as dumb as you obviously are.
If you double the stake, you thus double the payout (in MONEY terms yes!) I never intimated otherwise.
BUT (as you deliberately ignore) in my example,the previous bets were the first spin of the wheel which resulted in a flat exact 97.2% payout. The next spin of 1k I stated, would have put the wheel at a net payout/stake ratio to date of a massive minus percentage (or in machine terms a huge excess of a hundred percent payout.)
This why in PRACTICAL terms roulette bears little similarity to machines.
The evidence is partly circumstatial yes, but there's too much of a positive ranscept correlation for you to be correct.
Odds of 14million-1 for the lotto are astronomical yet someone wins every draw almost every time.
Odds are astronomical against 6 jackpots in 10 spins on s16 etc. All the BILLIONS of spins to date on these would have resulted by now in a similar incident to that, yet WHERE IS IT?
It AIN'T HAPPENED 'COS THEY AIN'T THAT RANDOM!!!!!
COMPREHENDEZ? UNDERSTAND? CHRIST......

[TheMission]

BUT (as you deliberately ignore) in my example,the previous bets were the first spin of the wheel which resulted in a flat exact 97.2% payout. The next spin of 1k I stated, would have put the wheel at a net payout/stake ratio to date of a massive minus percentage (or in machine terms a huge excess of a hundred percent payout.)
This why in PRACTICAL terms roulette bears little similarity to machines.

The next spin of 1 pence would have done exactly the same thing - which completely negates your point about the level of stake affecting payout percentage. Why do you not get this?

To answer your question mrdave, you are seeing the hard profile (like on Slotto) where the jackpot symbols have a high probability on the right hand reels, but not on the left. As it pays from the left, you don't win.

[betchrider]

Well fucking hell youve lost me ops:

[betchrider]

I oncre saw somebody clock £25,000 on a ****** and set it off on auto spin for a laugh(idiots)

[mr lugsy]

the early s16s were released onto the market under the technicality that the 20 different games at 10p a hit to make an "illegal" 500 jpt werent entirely crystal to the gaming board or the old gambling act.this i am told and might not be true.
on random spinner a jpt "could" be awarded for a single line bet of 10p.
never have i seen or even heard of, anybody achieving this feat ,even on max 2 pound bet ,the mere suggestion of 5 aces rolling down on line one for a single 10 p is proposterous.
the feature when awarded on a 10 bet gives you 15 pounds min,and once in a blue moon something higher,though never massive.
would it be fair to say that if you got the jpt across your one of twenty winlines your other 19 lines had no chance of winning? ,and never had a chance in the first place?

[RUDE]

Right, I give up, sorry lads but I'm not going to get involved in a slanging match over this as it's really not worth it.

I'll just say that in a controlled experiment over a period of time using my own slotto, myself and PMK witnessed obvious patterns in the gameplay after resetting the RAM.

That's all. Just posting my experiences.

Whether or not you'd see patterns in the play of a 'truely random' machine I'll leave for you decide...my opinions are totally clear but, i admit, not necessarily totally correct.

But seriously, if you're a highly intelligent person (which you'd have to be to get involved with the programming side) would you really come on a gambling forum and start shouting the odds like a child?

In the words of Big Brother, "you decide".

[cashino]

Right, I give up, sorry lads but I'm not going to get involved in a slanging match over this as it's really not worth it.

I'll just say that in a controlled experiment over a period of time using my own slotto, myself and PMK witnessed obvious patterns in the gameplay after resetting the RAM.

That's all. Just posting my experiences.

Whether or not you'd see patterns in the play of a 'truely random' machine I'll leave for you decide...my opinions are totally clear but, i admit, not necessarily totally correct.

But seriously, if you're a highly intelligent person (which you'd have to be to get involved with the programming side) would you really come on a gambling forum and start shouting the odds like a child?

In the words of Big Brother, "you decide".

No,you wouldn't!
Anyway Lugsy also has a good point on the 10p play, random spinner. There was one near me I had 2 jackpots on wheel, always £2 stake, and as lugsy says the manager told me NO-ONE EVER GOT 5 ACES FOR 500!
Like he says on £2 a line 19 lines wouldn't be random if you could get the jackpot on ONE 10P LINE!
I also saw this on Pink Panther, on 10p play if you got diamonds feature it was limited every time to it's lowest of £30 NO VARIATION!
The same place installed a Monkey Business on 'soft' random haha profile.
It paid 2 JACKPOTS SCREEN-FULLS IN FIRST 2 WEEKS while adjusting to it's percentage as PMK intimates. In last 2 years, it has NOT PAID A SINGLE JACKPOT, MANAGERS WORD, PLAYER'S AND REGULARS WORDS TOO.
Why not? The nearest it gets is 300+ on 5 hunters-free-spins features. I suspect bad programming, as the seed possibilities are not commensurate with the profile and soft-play setting.

Lastly, the abusive 'programmers of s16's' who write here;
You may be right in what task YOU perform, i.e. you correctly set these up for randomimity. How do you know, that without your knowledge, your block of code isn't being used within a extra parameter of code which alters the premise of you code but not its meaning.
In other words, your legit randomimity could be linked to a master block which 'controls' it according to other considerations, and it is not known to you for reasons of confidentiality and the fact that it is not in the spirit of regulations.
Do you know EVERYTHING about what you do, and those who employ you?

[Mystery_Plum]

Deleted because I'm too tired to join this thread. Might do tomorrow though

[AMK]

it simply cannot be '100% random' it IS random to the extent that it picks random numbers which are allocated to prizes. If you turn a machine off when it had picked a 'good number' then the machine would have to 'compensate' and 'illegally' 'randomly pick' another 'good' number as people have highlighted above.

It HAS to do this to ensure its meeting its target %. This is what happened on slotto anyway. if you turn it off when it has picked a smaller win then its no biggie, the machines % is not adversly affected.

I too have fucked around with a slotto in someones garage and can confirm this.

A win of £100 rolled in (7's x 4) the machine was reset. the next spin resulted in a £75 win (3 x 7's) ... kept turning it off so the win would not be banked, the machine CONSISTANTLY span in either a £75 win or a £100.

It even works when you pull the plug on the £500, guess what? it simply rolls back in either the very next spin or several later, random eh?

[JG]

Good points cashino about exclusive rights of code. Keep the battle lads, I'm playing online poker, which is rigged, so good night for now.

[ob]

dear god is this still going on, can someone lock the thread please :P

All I can say to those in the "non-random" camp, is that experience proves nothing, as it can all be coincidental, however common a certain pattern etc. is and can happen whether the machine is random or not.

Here's a personal experience to share with you guys btw, hi roller £5 a go ( back in s16 days ), which I might add in my experience was the best s16 machine ever - especially since its on 98%..... anyhow...£20 in for £250, another £250 came £30 later, which emptied the machine. Came back to the arcade later on after they refilled it, and got another £250, followed by copious £50/100 wins to empty it AGAIN...

Finally they put £150 in it again on refill and I put £40 in for ANOTHER £250.... does this sound like the payout from a non-random machine.... I don't think so personally....