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Nil Satis
10-01-2007, 05:37 PM
I see no real future for them to be honest. Especially not in the regular money making department. I think it'll just gradually decline to more sociable play than anything else.

Why not spend your time playing the AWPs and live off them like i do :wink: :P 8)


The trouble is, I really enjoy playing SWPs after thumping the AWPs. I enjoy a nice cold pint with a mate or two playing DOND / Bully / WWTBA-Pounder-aire.

I realise there are several other forums on here that might give me a few hints but as this one is by far the most interesting and erudite, I thought I'd have a go here. :wink:

My basic question is HOW do you or anyone else consistently win on fruit machines to the point where you could make a living from it? I know how winning on SWPs works - good general knowledge to begin with, depth and speed of memory, speed of reading, but above all hard work and practice - and how (in general) it DOESN'T work - the sort of things we all get accused of occasionally such as:

(a) you must have learned all the questions
(b) you must have programmed it
(c) you must work for the company that makes these machines
(d) you must be cheating/have insider information

In my experience such accusations are more likely to come from punters, and to not be aggressive in intent, rather than from pub managers or bar staff, and they are almost always rubbish anyway. There ARE occasions when someone has a special skill that they can exploit (such as the 'Magic Eye trick' with Spot the Difference), but I've never accepted that even if you could for example buy the question set for a game from an insider at one of the machine companies that this would be a realistic method of providing you with a living.

For fruit machines on the other hand, I've never seen how anyone can turn a 30% take for the machine into even a 1% profit for yourself unless you do have insider knowledge of such things as special button combinations, deliberately losing on a gamble as you know the next one will win, pre-defined patterns of Hi/Lo, or whatever. I'm accepting that this doesn't involve mechanical tricks or simply breaking into machines as that will soon get you battered and/or arrested almost anywhere, but is it really the case that you can simply gain enough skill in how to play them that the differential between the normal 'mug punters' and yourselves can be that great?

I don't want or expect you to post any real tricks of the trade on here, just an indication of how this might be done - I don't want to doubt you but for me, unless you CAN get insider information, frankly the whole issue just seems bollocks. If it is simply about insider information, that would put my mind at rest and fair play to you for fighting back against the system!

Cardinal Sin
10-01-2007, 06:51 PM
To put it simply, you could go and put 50p in WWTBAM or Caveman Capers, and you would know whether it's worth playing or not. A lot of fruit machines are like that - in particular Red Machines. It only takes a few quid to know whether you're likely to win or not.

There is a lot of skill involved with machines too (and the ones with high-skill elements are certainly more popular). Although the machine is designed to pay out only 75% of what it takes in, it does this over a large amount of plays, which means that you can "nick" a jackpot or large win, even when it wouldn't normally pay that out.

You don't really need to know emptiers to make money on machines, but the one thing you do need is discipline. Know when to leave a machine if it's playing crap, knowing which locations and machines to avoid etc...

ob
10-01-2007, 07:22 PM
On a machine paying 70%, mugs get <70% for ages ----> me getting over 100% in the short term on the machine, hence balancing the percentage...


comprede...?

Matt Vinyl
10-01-2007, 07:27 PM
Agreed, YE! a few gold ones into a Red and you should know where you stand... ;)

I'd say that it's 100% luck-based-skill! ;)

You need the luck to start off on a machine when it hasn't been cleaned out. Then, you need the skill (on a select number of machines!) to be able to know when to collect, when to gamble. Actually, I'd say that's more 'specific knowledge' than 'skill', but...

:)

ob
10-01-2007, 07:33 PM
on newer machines, knowledge rather than skill... unfortunately!!

discipline is also important, not chucking ur money in shit machines.

Mattb
10-01-2007, 07:47 PM
Yeah, its just a long process i'm afraid. You have to take a hammering when you start out - which i did when i started playing properly about 5 years ago. In total i've been playing about 10 years now though.

All my best tips are something like:

a) Keep a check on machine refill readings, trying to know refill days.
b) Keep tabs on machine locations
c) Allow recovery for battered machines
d) Only play ones that streak regularly (reds / crests) or that are guaranteed no losers (extremes).
e) Don't even play bellfruits or bad mazoomas
f) Stay disciplined. Probably most important.

Nil Satis
11-01-2007, 05:28 PM
Thanks, guys - these are all helpful (and believable!) responses.

The one thing that's guaranteed to get my cynicism going is when people make over the top claims for something, making it sound easier and more achievable than it really is. This is I suppose why it's always a bit annoying to be accused of learning all the answers, working for the machine companies or just downright cheating - I always feel like responding with something like 'How about 20 years of practice instead?' then adding the fact that I read all sorts of papers and other publications (simply for enjoyment not 'research') and only watch about 2 hours of TV a week (Match of the Day, you'll be surprised to learn).

The number one thing you need when playing quiz machines, more so now than ever, is to be selective about what you play, both in terms of which games to play and when to play each of the few worthwhile games. As you may have guessed from one or two of my other posts :wink: , I've become more and more downhearted at the increasing percentage of dross out there in SWP Land and I've always thought fruit machines must be the same. From watching people playing them next to the quiz machine and the occasional brief dabble myself, I do think some of them are just ridiculously unfair/rigged and have often doubted even the claimed 70%-80% payout as being an exaggeration. It looks from what you are saying that some manufacturers do just churn out unadulterated rubbish.

I also see some people who don't seem to have a clue how to play fruit machines, even from my basic understanding of them, so again it's good to know that skill/knowledge play a part as well.

Keep up the good work!

Mattb
11-01-2007, 06:41 PM
What people don't get is the said payout. Say it is labelled as 78% - This is run over hundreds of thousands of credits, not over a tenner you put in the machine! :P

They can run under and over percentage in the short term (drifting), but will eventually get back to 78%. When you force a machine, you in effect put it so far behind percentage, that it pays out JP (or multiple JPs) to level out or over compensate the %. That's the main reason many machines will play badly - they're covered by players who leave them after streaks, and they will suck say 100+ back again before even playing decently, to make back the excess they've chucked out in streaking. Red machines are best for streaks these days, and regularly go for 100+ in sequence, rendering the machine awful afterwards The trick of the trade is to spot the signs!

Matt

ob
12-01-2007, 02:18 PM
UK machines do keep very rigourously to percentage - after say 2-3K has been put through the machine to get it started it will usually stick within 1% either side of the stated percentage...

I would actually disagree with the "hundreds of thousands of credits" you say matt... If I play ie. mortal wombat and its dead, munter loses 30-35, then its ready for 25 again - it keeps rigourously to the percentage - although other machines are a bit more variable - however thanks to blocks etc. every 1000 in I'd say it pretty much keeps to the exact percentage!

If percentages WERE run over hundreds of thousand of credits, we'd be screwed, as there would be very limited progression!

WaterGate
15-01-2007, 03:10 PM
AWP = Experience, Practice & preparation for investment.
SWP = Practice.

cool
15-01-2007, 08:28 PM
It should be AWP players v SWP players . Ive got a lot of respect for AWP players who milk the fruities, however is it true that awp players tend to be more bling bling , less cerebally inclined and more territorial. Do they also tend to blow their winnings on other forms of gambling?I knew somebody who milked the fruities by day and blew the lot on roulette by night.I play primarily to win , I'm addicted to winning not playing.

Mattb
15-01-2007, 10:30 PM
You do tend to get plenty of meathead AWP players, yes. In other words tossers. They also tend to be the ones who are more addicted and aggressive i find too.

I'd probably lump myself in the group with more than half a braincell. I'm probably too genial and polite in all truth, as its a mugs game and dog eat dog a lot of the time. I've had the pleasure of meeting all ranges of punter from the sound and decent guys i now know fairly well from Norwich (Dunham/pickareel/crosby/dan) to the other end of the scale punters i've bumped into down there.

Matt

ZAX
18-01-2007, 10:01 AM
It should be AWP players v SWP players . Ive got a lot of respect for AWP players who milk the fruities, however is it true that awp players tend to be more bling bling , less cerebally inclined and more territorial. Do they also tend to blow their winnings on other forms of gambling?I knew somebody who milked the fruities by day and blew the lot on roulette by night.I play primarily to win , I'm addicted to winning not playing.

Fair enough but Ive got more respect for the SWP players and their encyclopaedic knowledge, ability to guess spoilers and persistence. I remember ages back FOXY posting on here that he knew pretty much all the questions on Pepsi Chart Quiz. Having played that game seemingly a thousand times and still coming up against all kinds of obscure stuff never seen before, I can only guess at the hours he must have put in, plus his ability to retain all that info on star signs of pop stars etc